What is the alternative?

[DaveinGermany]

Originally Posted by Rowlf

I did not realise they got free health care. Perhaps Dave in Germany will know.

Not here they don't! Working here legally on the German system, registered & paying my contributions covers me for the same health care as any other person playing by the rules in Germany. I think the folk mentioned in your article are more likely those that have retired after working & paying their stamp in the UK, but then settle somewhere in the sun where their pension has more worth.

Having said that, theoretically they should have health insurance/cover to meet any requirements for health care. Apparently throughout Europe there's a reciprocal agreement for Countries to treat foreign eu nationals as required. Some countries require payment from the patient straight away & their medical insurance details which can then be reclaimed by the patient, others take details & apply to the government of the national involved for repayment.

Something the NHS should be doing but aren't & then they complain they're losing money hand over fist because of "Health Tourism"! More to the point they're losing money because of their own inaction & refusal to apply procedures already in place to enable the recuperation of treatment costs!

[Neil]

Originally Posted by DaveinGermany

Something the NHS should be doing but aren't & then they complain they're losing money hand over fist because of "Health Tourism"! More to the point they're losing money because of their own inaction & refusal to apply procedures already in place to enable the recuperation of treatment costs!

They are trying to recover costs but for some strange reason the NHS gets abused when it wants to do things like check ID's to make sure you are entitled to treatment. It's a bout time we introduced the an ID card system as was suggested a few years ago to make it more simple to prove who you are and what you're entitled to.

[Margaret Pilkington]

I do not want to be obliged to carry an ID card.
I have never been in favour of them. I can provide forms of identification...a medical card, my SRN qualification and number, my badge with my picture on it from when I worked within the NHS.
I look a lot different to a pregnant Nigerian woman who has accrued a bill of £350k(for maternity care and intensive care of her babies)
How does someone like that get treatment and care without having to give credit card details?

OK, so you are going to tell me that there are a lot of folk who do not look Nigerian, but will falsely get free health care.
I have a Lancashire accent, I can prove I have lived in the area and paid my dues since 1962...that should be enough.
I will not carry an ID card.

[Margaret Pilkington]

Solving the problems in the NHS isn't just about money, though of course it is bad business to allow people to escape paying for treatment if they have not paid into the system.

To my knowledge,all hospitals have admin staff whose job it is to determine those patients who come through the doors and should be paying.
Now if they are doing a poor job, that should be sorted.
The problems within the NHS are complex...multi faceted and need an approach which addresses the complexity...and deals with the facets simultaneously.
If this is not done, then whatever efforts are put in will fail, or may only provide a temporary stop gap.
The NHS needs to run in tandem with social care provision for a start.
Social care provision should be a state run concern.
The NHS has been a political football and all parties have meddled and tinkered around the edges. None of this tinkering has been beneficial to the patients.
The companies who provided the PFI contracts should be told that after a certain date the hospitals will pay no more into their fat coffers...and hospitals should be allowed to contract their works to the lowest tender...or set up their own works departments again(far more cost effective and those who actually work for a hospital give a better service because of the pride they have in their work).
GP's need to improve their services too...no more closing for a half day on Wednesday, staggered lunch times. It can be done but needs to be thought out and managed properly.

[Rowlf]

Personally an ID card would not bother me if it means sorting the wheat from the chaff so to speak. Years ago I would not have been in favour but in today's world I think it is a necessary evil.

[DaveinGermany]

Originally Posted by Neil

They are trying to recover costs but for some strange reason the NHS gets abused when it wants to do things like check ID's to make sure you are entitled to treatment. It's a bout time we introduced the an ID card system as was suggested a few years ago to make it more simple to prove who you are and what you're entitled to.

All for ID cards & the application of checks, as to the NHS recovering costs a lot of the time it's the Doctors, staff & admin people themselves causing the problems by refusing to enforce checks or carry out laid down rulings.

NHS 'Scandal' As UK Pays Millions To EU

NHS hit squads to collect payment from health tourists

[Margaret Pilkington]

Originally Posted by Rowlf

Personally an ID card would not bother me if it means sorting the wheat from the chaff so to speak. Years ago I would not have been in favour but in today's world I think it is a necessary evil.

It is just another layer of bureaucracy...and if those admin staff who are supposed to do the checks on how long you have been resident in this country are not doing them, then it becomes another worthless document
The NHS write to me to chase me up for mammograms...that means they know who I am.
I have an NHS number. I have a number which relates to my medical notes...a patient ID number. Why do I need anything else to access a service for which I have paid since 1962?

The systems for checking if you are accessing the NHS appropriately are already in place and have been for more than two decades.
That they are not being used is down to the management of the hospital trusts...or maybe that should be mismanagement.

[Margaret Pilkington]

For the last ten or twelve years of my working life I was required to wear photo ID.
I did have a photo ID badge, but as to actually wearing it...well it lived in the front pocket of my handbag.
What was it for? Heaven knows, because in all those years I was not asked once to show it, to prove who I was.
Not at any of the meetings, not in any department that I needed to visit. It was a useless plastic card tha was supposed to be attached to my person while I was working to show who I was. That I was there, in uniform with my sleeves rolled up,doing what I was there to do should have been enough. On a health and patient safety issue these cards were attached with metal and plastic fittings which could injure the skin of my patients...and this was my excuse when senior managers challenged me about wearing the blasted thing.

[Neil]

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

The companies who provided the PFI contracts should be told that after a certain date the hospitals will pay no more into their fat coffers...and hospitals should be allowed to contract their works to the lowest tender...or set up their own works departments again(far more cost effective and those who actually work for a hospital give a better service because of the pride they have in their work).

That is written into all the contracts as they had an end date. Unfortuneately for BRH that is a long time away as it's a 38 year contract. BRH and parts of Burnley General were built in 2006 using PFI so the contracts will end in 2044 ish. It's costing East Lancs NHS Trust about £20 million a year to pay them but that won't include all the increased costs for maintenance/repairs/additions they also pay at inflated prices.

This quote is taken from here

A Kent-based firm called Consort Healthcare (Black-burn) Limited built the Royal Blackburn Hospital at a cost of £109million, and will receive £796million from the trust over 36 years.

Why didn't they just get a mortgage from a bank?

[Neil]

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

GP's need to improve their services too...no more closing for a half day on Wednesday, staggered lunch times. It can be done but needs to be thought out and managed properly.

Each doctor can only see so many patients in an hour. This means GP's can't see more patients by opening for longer because each doctor isn't going to work more hours in the week. What they can do though is stagger how many doctors on in surgery and extend the opening hours from maybe 8am to 8pm. This would allow people who work to take evening appointments which might take some pressure of walk in centres and A&E

[Neil]

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

For the last ten or twelve years of my working life I was required to wear photo ID.
I did have a photo ID badge, but as to actually wearing it...well it lived in the front pocket of my handbag.
What was it for? Heaven knows, because in all those years I was not asked once to show it, to prove who I was.
Not at any of the meetings, not in any department that I needed to visit. It was a useless plastic card tha was supposed to be attached to my person while I was working to show who I was. That I was there, in uniform with my sleeves rolled up,doing what I was there to do should have been enough. On a health and patient safety issue these cards were attached with metal and plastic fittings which could injure the skin of my patients...and this was my excuse when senior managers challenged me about wearing the blasted thing.

That's a great example of what is wrong with the NHS. Staff not doing what they are required to do and senior managers not dealing with staff appropriately who do not follow the rules.

If this happens with something as simple as wearing your ID badge so patients know you are who you say you are then what other rules are being ignored by staff?

[Margaret Pilkington]

Originally Posted by Neil

That is written into all the contracts as they had an end date. Unfortuneately for BRH that is a long time away as it's a 38 year contract. BRH and parts of Burnley General were built in 2006 using PFI so the contracts will end in 2044 ish. It's costing East Lancs NHS Trust about £20 million a year to pay them but that won't include all the increased costs for maintenance/repairs/additions they also pay at inflated prices.

This quote is taken from here



Why didn't they just get a mortgage from a bank?

I was party to the meetings on PFI, but couldn't remember the costs...after all it is 14 years since I retired.

I don't know why the other oprions for finance were not considered...I have a feeling there was a push from government to do it this way or go without new facilities.

It is a lot of money to find before any services at all are offered...and then of course the hospital have to do the annual savings bit without compromising quality or services.

[Margaret Pilkington]

Originally Posted by Neil

That's a great example of what is wrong with the NHS. Staff not doing what they are required to do and senior managers not dealing with staff appropriately who do not follow the rules.

If this happens with something as simple as wearing your ID badge so patients know you are who you say you are then what other rules are being ignored by staff?

Neil, the patients knew exactly who I was. I wore a name and designation badge. I just did not wear the photo ID...as I explained I considered it to be a risk when dealing with personal patient needs.

I had my name badge altered, the pin was removed and it was replaced by a stick pin type arrangement with a guard on the back.

Some rules can be bent without compromising safety.
My immediate manager knew of my infraction of the rules. She accepted my reasons as valid.

[Margaret Pilkington]

Originally Posted by Neil

Each doctor can only see so many patients in an hour. This means GP's can't see more patients by opening for longer because each doctor isn't going to work more hours in the week. What they can do though is stagger how many doctors on in surgery and extend the opening hours from maybe 8am to 8pm. This would allow people who work to take evening appointments which might take some pressure of walk in centres and A&E

Neil, you are really stating the obvious there...What you say is true and that is why I said it needs to be managed properly.

[Less]

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

Neil, the patients knew exactly who I was. I wore a name and designation badge. I just did not wear the photo ID...as I explained I considered it to be a risk when dealing with personal patient needs.

I had my name badge altered, the pin was removed and it was replaced by a stick pin type arrangement with a guard on the back.

Some rules can be bent without compromising safety.
My immediate manager knew of my infraction of the rules. She accepted my reasons as valid.

If a 'rule' is true and worthwhile, it doesn't need to be 'bent', I don't like I.D. cards, however I've had to wear them, I hope I never have to do it again.