What on earth are they thinking? - Page 3

WillowTheWhisp · 12-07-2007, 23:19

I'm inclined to agree. I think it's about time people stopped fighting the Battle of the Boyne and started looking forwards instead of back.

shillelagh · 12-07-2007, 23:47

Its part of Northern Irelands history Willow. I was going to stay out of this the reason is because i love the 12th July parades all the bands especially the pipe bands. In fact the parades normally start in June and the big build up to the 12th and 13th July parades.

WillowTheWhisp · 13-07-2007, 07:56

I know it's part of the history Jen but the problem is that in a lot of people's minds it isn't history. When it inflames (pardon the pun) animosity between people then perhaps it's time to reassess. I don't know if I'm explaining myself very well here so please forgive me if I'm not. It just saddens me when history is used as a way of having a go at people now. If it could be kept in perspective that would be fine. I cringe when the Orange paraders insist on marching through 'Catholic areas' though. When I was a little girl the sound of a big bass drum seemed menacing to me.

When I was in Ireland in my late teens early 20s, because I have an English accent, I was occasionally confronted by people who didn't know me who would tell me what 'you people did to us'. At such times I would point out that not only did I personally never do any of it, but my ancestors were also being 'done unto'. Mind you, it should have dawned on them because I knew all the words to the rebel songs and could play the bodhrán.

shillelagh · 14-07-2007, 00:32

I agree with you willow - they shouldnt march through the catholic areas even though my cousins will and do disagree. It is their history though and thats the problem. You are not the only one thats had trouble like that. I went to Belfast on a day out with my cousins daughter and while we were waiting for the bus to go back to my cousins i said lets go in the pub while we are waiting. We had half an hour to waste. Seeing as i was the one who was legally allowed to go in the pub i was the one who went to the bar. When we went in it was packed and people were talking and laughing i went to the bar and asked for 2 halves of lager please. The whole pub went quiet you could hear the tv in the corner. The barman served me and i went over to where my cousins daughter was sitting. I sat down and the first words she said to me was drink up the sooner we get out of here the better. She spoke very quiet so her voice didnt carry. Mine being the true lancashire accent said why and carried. She said this is a catholic pub and we need to get out of here. After she said that it was the quickest half i ever drank. While we were in there the pub was quiet as can be. My cousins daughter went out of the pub first - and as i closed the door the volume went up again people started talking and laughing. I have never been made to feel so unwelcome in a pub before and never since.

WillowTheWhisp · 14-07-2007, 08:34

The mad thing is you could quite easily have been Catholic too. That's the problem with people making assumptions.

I suppose I come to it from the opposite side and find it quite unnerving driving through areas of N. Ireland where all the murals are on the walls and stuff.

blazey · 14-07-2007, 18:20

History is history whether people like it or not and traditional commemorations are always held in the highest regards even if they are offensive. It'll take alot more than attempting to build bridges to stop people continuing traditions.

And why shouldn't people celebrate their own religious battles? I know religion is a big thing in ireland and this could obviously be taken in a very offensive way but at the end of the day, religions can offend people without celebrations like this but we dont disregard and hide our own religions to keep others happy do we?

I am roman catholic and I think some religions are unreasonable and negligent to human life, but i dont think my own feelings towards that should stop people from forming their own choices and morals and if they want to celebrate that then its upto them. I cant avoid being offended by things, so i just learn to live with it.

WillowTheWhisp · 14-07-2007, 18:32

Celebrating one's own religion is not really what this is all about. The Protestant/Catholic divide in N. Ireland is/was far more complicated than merely a different choice of religion.

I see your point about people keeping their own traditions and celebrating their own beliefs certainly but it's not as simple as that. It's just not the same as us and our Bonfire Night or the USA and the 4th of July. The history is still very much alive in some people's minds and not in a positive way unfortunately.

Would you worry in this country about whether you, as a Catholic, were going into a 'Protestant pub'? Would it even occur to you, in this country, that there could be such a thing?

blazey · 14-07-2007, 19:06

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Originally Posted by WillowTheWhisp

Celebrating one's own religion is not really what this is all about. The Protestant/Catholic divide in N. Ireland is/was far more complicated than merely a different choice of religion.

I see your point about people keeping their own traditions and celebrating their own beliefs certainly but it's not as simple as that. It's just not the same as us and our Bonfire Night or the USA and the 4th of July. The history is still very much alive in some people's minds and not in a positive way unfortunately.

Would you worry in this country about whether you, as a Catholic, were going into a 'Protestant pub'? Would it even occur to you, in this country, that there could be such a thing?

Has it ever occurred to you that we are no longer in a country that has shared favour of bonfire night and other traditional english celebrations? Bonfire night is just as stupid and dangerous, and no, I try to avoid going out on bonfire night if i can, but my younger sister likes to go.

I don't particularly have any major worries about my religion in the ountry but right now muslims all over are worried that they are going to be stereotyped as terrorists/extremists. Our country isn't as simple and safe as one would like to think unfortunatly, and there is also just as much outspoken views against peoples religions here as there are in ireland, it just isnt as black and white and its not as easily split down the middle.

WillowTheWhisp · 14-07-2007, 19:27

But surely Blazey even you can see the difference. Bonfire night isn't anti-muslim.

blazey · 14-07-2007, 20:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by WillowTheWhisp

But surely Blazey even you can see the difference. Bonfire night isn't anti-muslim.

As far as I am concerned the tire pyre wasnt anti catholic either, it was celebrating their own successes of their own religion.

Bonfire night is just as stupid as burning one huge pyre. Bonfire night is condemning a group of people who wanted to rid of the houses of parliament, 'terrorism' one might like to say, but why do we burn effigies of a 'terrorist' one night of the year like its a necessary ritual?

I'm not linking Bonfire night as anti-muslim, hence why they were in seperate paragraphs. But right now we might as well have a war against their religion as so many people in the country now think of the term terrorist as linked with islam. British people are just as shallow minded as these people lighting pyres and chanting against the catholics in ireland and rubbing it in their faces.

We celebrate the fact that we won the war but what about those from those countries that now live on our doorsteps because of our new cultural acceptance. Does anybody actually give a damn about who they offend?

Catholics in ireland may fear walking to a protestant pub, but you cant even say what you really think on a community forum without being flamed for being an outsider/ a student/ too young to understand, how different do you people actually think you are from these tyre burning protestants?

garinda · 14-07-2007, 23:33

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