What would this cost us - Page 3

park381 · 14-11-2005, 19:01

Graham, before I reply to your posts, could I please ask why all your replies read like war & peace is that the politician in you

garinda · 14-11-2005, 19:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by park381

Graham, before I reply to your posts, could I please ask why all your replies read like war & peace is that the politician in you

That's bit unfair Parky.
Graham's replies seem as full as they can be, and fairly to the point.

park381 · 14-11-2005, 19:14

[quote=Graham Jones]There are numerous points in this debate and as the thread shows, a variety of issues to be considered. I get worried on this issue that politicians will mislead the public into parochialism so they can protect their own interests, which is precisely what happened 18 months ago.
I would agree with that one, in particular the politicians missleading the public, as posted previous Empire building

I don't care if I got deselected, I am not in it for the glory [or the money]. I want what's best for us all and at some point I want to sit down [from the outside] and watch someone else put as much effort in!
We all want the best for us and our families

An East Lancs Authority is the right way forward, with or without Blackburn. Hyndburn has sold a lot of its assets, has little revenue streams apart form the market hall and tax payer and colosal debts. So on finance it would make sense. There is absolutely no doubt we would see much better services because we wouldn't be as crippled financially and it would ease pressure on the Council Tax.
What are these debts, are they not from somewhere in the past, say when Hyndburn was formed.

There are other reasons. Mainly An East Lancs Uni; East Lancs Public Transport Policy [currently payed by Ratepayers to that 'marvelous' quango The East Lancs Partnership]; Tourism. We are talking about serious investment in making our area what we all know it should be, a great part of the country to live and enjoy life.
Could East Lancs support a "Uni"

I am totally opposed to quangos such as ELP and ELEVATE and whilst we have two council system, sometimes paying to do the same job twice, these quango's will go unchecked.
Two council system, do HBC employ education staff, or library staff

I want to see the Council Tax come down under this system. The truth is though that it will cost more because it will need setting up. When Blackpool and Blackburn went unitary some studies suggested an extra cost of 10% to the ratepayer. However such is Hyndburns parlous state and such is the wealth in the Ribble Valley it may prove beneficial to go in simply on the argument the amount of council tax payed.
I think the current Council tax of HBC is cheapest in East Lancs including Burnley, Nelson,and the Ribble Valley, I would welcome a reduction in my council tax, but I know that if an Eat Lancs Authority were formed my council tax would go up.........again Empire Building

park381 · 14-11-2005, 19:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by garinda

That's bit unfair Parky.
Graham's replies seem as full as they can be, and fairly to the point.

Why is that, I have to wade through nearly a full page to find the punch line

garinda · 14-11-2005, 19:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by park381

Why is that, I have to wade through nearly a full page to find the punch line

If Graham is Tolstoy then, you must be Proust.

War and Peace was a better film than anything adapted from your writing.

park381 · 14-11-2005, 19:32

[quote=Graham Jones]Its a bit pedantic to suggest LCC take 78% and not 85%. The other authorities are not local either and the point has no bearing on the fact that the vast bulk of money is spent way up the ladder in Preston. What a unitary authority will do is bring that 78% spending a lot closer to Hyndburn at the price of 15% of our Council tax moving upward/away.
Just making a point Graham, on the money being spent way up the ladder at Preston, look at the spend on education establishments in and around the area, Moorhead, Rhyddings, Spring Hill to name but a few.

So I don't accept the false argument that we are totally giving power/authority away from Hyndburn. Particularly when you consider as one point made was salaries at LCC. How many Hyndburn residents work there but live and shop here? An East Lancs authority where Blackburn and Burnley are rivals, Pendle/Ribble Valley and Rossendale are not on the main trunk route M65 puts Hyndburn in a great position. This represents not only an issue of better local democracy but good economic/employment benefits in which Hyndburn should seize on its central position. Maybe the Globe Centre + Scaitcliffe House???
I think the salaries quoted were for an accountant working for HBC not LCC.
So you are saying HBC as the centre of a "new authority" East Lancs

Right now LCC is about to consolidate its Highways Department ending its costly contracts to local authorities. Willows Lane staff are about to be transfered to LCC, Willows Lane/HBC Highways Dept shut down and all operations moved to Whalley. I don't think that would have happened so easily with an East Lancs Authority.
They must have been loosing money on the contracts
But what about HBC with the "housing stock transfer" is that not the same thing, put in a different way

park381 · 14-11-2005, 19:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by garinda

If Graham is Tolstoy then, you must be Proust.

War and Peace was a better film than anything adapted from your writing.

Just plain and simple, a once working lad

Should have added............love your hair net

SPUGGIE J · 15-11-2005, 12:06

Still not convinced that this will work as there are too many unknowns. Transfers and non contract renewal to allow private tendering is slower than the process is now (in my opinion) and have experienced what happens when all this happens many will have regrets within 18 months.

park381 · 15-11-2005, 12:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by SPUGGIE J

Still not convinced that this will work as there are too many unknowns. Transfers and non contract renewal to allow private tendering is slower than the process is now (in my opinion) and have experienced what happens when all this happens many will have regrets within 18 months.

Agree with you there spuggie, as we are at the moment HBC has one of the lowest council taxes in East Lancs, any move to "join" with other areas would result in rises in council tax, and possible poorer service delivery

SPUGGIE J · 15-11-2005, 12:41

When they messed about with the councils up here they said we would all benifit yet within 18 months we were worse of. When Falkirk Council came into being after the abolishment of Central Region Council things became a mess especially when they had to contract all the available work to the lowest bid. Standards dropped in all areas and their hands are tied. Council taxes keep going up yet there are cuts in services from what was meant to be the best way to run a council. Unitary hasnt worked here why should it be different down there. If people think there is an ego issue in HBC believe me it will get worse we have 2 councillor brothers with more power than the Provest. Poll tax started in Scotland failed so tried in England were it failed. Now they are trying it on with the councils. Where will it end?

park381 · 15-11-2005, 13:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by SPUGGIE J

When they messed about with the councils up here they said we would all benifit yet within 18 months we were worse of. When Falkirk Council came into being after the abolishment of Central Region Council things became a mess especially when they had to contract all the available work to the lowest bid. Standards dropped in all areas and their hands are tied. Council taxes keep going up yet there are cuts in services from what was meant to be the best way to run a council. Unitary hasnt worked here why should it be different down there. If people think there is an ego issue in HBC believe me it will get worse we have 2 councillor brothers with more power than the Provest. Poll tax started in Scotland failed so tried in England were it failed. Now they are trying it on with the councils. Where will it end?

Am in total agreement with your comments, what has happened up there must serve as a warning to all down here, the HBC debts they talk of are debts from when HBC was first formed.

park381 · 15-11-2005, 13:38

This may make interesting reading, from checking 6 local authorities web sites for Council Tax figures for this year (information that is there for all to see) I find that HBC have the lowest Council Tax of all the 6 checked. Band D is the base line for all Council Tax calculations other bands are %ages of that figure

Acrylic-bob · 15-11-2005, 17:52

I am in two minds about this proposal. On the one hand I can appreciate the benefits of being a unitary authority. Lancashire CC is remote, arrogant and spends money like it is going out of fashion. On the other hand could you really imagine handing the half-wits at HBC any more responsibility than they have alread, not to mention a hugely increased budget? That has got to be one of the most effective recipes for disaster that I have yet heard. You have Britcliffe, who want's to screw every penny he can out of the borough, Dobson, who cannot tell the difference between a grant and a loan. Hayes, a crime czar who is about as much use as a chocolate fireguard. And the psychotic Anne Scaife, who thinks that anyone who has more than one bag of rubbish to dispose of per fortnight should be hauled before the magistrates....

...and that is before we consider the foibles of the labour group, several of whom are doing very nicely out of Lancs CC, thank you very much!

With a reasonable and responsible set of councilors the idea might just work to our benefit eventually, but with the motley collection of pantomime characters currently warming their backsides in the Mayor's Parlour, sorry Graham, there is not a hope in hell.

SPUGGIE J · 15-11-2005, 18:25

Nice bit of truth there A.b but better watch someone aint looking to find some libel in here.

Besides they cant face the truth.

park381 · 15-11-2005, 18:28

Excellent observations a-b