What's the use?

[Mancie]

Originally Posted by steeljack

Seems to me Germany won the peace thru one thing .....hard work , rebuilding a country that had been bombed flat ,had lost over 1/2 its population , any piece of equipment worth a penny was shipped back east to Russia as 'reparations' ,and 90% of its female population aged over 12 yrs old in the eastern half of the country raped by the advancing Russian armies .
OK the Marshall plan did help in preventing famine ( it also did the same in other countries) and the fact that the UK and the US occupying powers also forbade the 'New Germany' from spending any of its budget on defense costs.
If anyone wants to know what helped the "German economic miracle" it was the mis-guided greed of British Govts and British businessmen .....yep the German Steel industry (Krupps etc.) had been bombed flat ....so what did the Brits do ...they sold/gave them brand new efficient steel plants which had been built in inefficient 60 year old British steel mills to create employment for British workers and then wondered why they couldn't compete ..... similar story with the British textile industry , how much modern state of the art equipment did companies like Bulloughs and Northrop sell overseas only to have the buyers turn round and bite the British textile manufactuers on the ass .

the USA poured cash into the then West Germany because of the threat of Russian communism.. as they did in Japan.
lets get things striaght..the red army held Berlin ..they took over and then invited the US army in.
the USA had no option other than attcking Russia which they did not use...instead they took the decision to re-build the parts they owned rather than let the then Russian communists take over. we all know the Yanks are obsessed with communities that don't work the way they like.

[steeljack]

Originally Posted by Mancie

the USA poured cash into the then West Germany because of the threat of Russian communism.. as they did in Japan.
lets get things striaght..the red army held Berlin ..they took over and then invited the US army in.
the USA had no option other than attcking Russia which they did not use...instead they took the decision to re-build the parts they owned rather than let the then Russian communists take over. we all know the Yanks are obsessed with communities that don't work the way they like.

Don't think your argument is valid , look at recent history , billions of aid to Afghanistan and its still a s**t-hole , a few million to Germany , they (the Germans) put it to good use and thrived .

[steeljack]

Back to original thread .....interesting item I came across ....a speech by Winston Churchill made in 1946 calling for the creation of a United States of Europe .

Winston Churchill's speech to the academic Youth - Churchill's Rede 1946 in Zürich - Europainformationen des EUD Internet Online Teams

This was made after 5 months after his famous speech at Fulton Missouri about "an iron curtain descending across Europe ".
Seems British policy on Europe was set long before the 60s

[Mancie]

Originally Posted by steeljack

Don't think your argument is valid , look at recent history , billions of aid to Afghanistan and its still a s**t-hole , a few million to Germany , they (the Germans) put it to good use and thrived .

my arguments are always valid

[Wynonie Harris]

Originally Posted by Mancie

you lot make me laugh.. there has been treaties signed since the Tories took us into this ...no out cry in those days so why do you tories all get upset about this treaty?

Do they not let you out that much these days, Mancie? You really are out of touch with the modern world! Do you really think that the only people worried about the new European Constitution and the ever-advancing creep of the Euro Superstate are Tories? Wake up and smell the coffee!

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by Wynonie Harris

Do they not let you out that much these days, Mancie? You really are out of touch with the modern world! Do you really think that the only people worried about the new European Constitution and the ever-advancing creep of the Euro Superstate are Tories? Wake up and smell the coffee!

Mancie is obsessed with Tories Wynonie, (as in the hatred of) but what he doesn't realise is the political system he most favours is totally flawed, all this everybody is equal to the revolution brothers doesn't work now and has never worked in the past, even in the animal kingdom there is always the Alpha Male and Female in any pack. I think the best example is sown in a film which I'm sure will be on the box soon called "Mrs Rawcliffes Revenge" a true story about a Communist living in Leeds in the 1060 who was so disillusioned with Britain he decided to move to the other side of the Iron Curtain. Unfortunately when he got there it wasn't the land of milk and honey he thought it was and he spend the rest of the Cold War helping to smuggle people from East to West, Mrs Rawcliffes revenge is his account of these events

[Less]

Originally Posted by jaysay

"Mrs Rawcliffes Revenge" a true story about a Communist living in Leeds in the 1060 who was so disillusioned with Britain he decided to move to the other side of the Iron Curtain.

Somehow jaysay I get the feeling you might mean the 1960's?

How come your keyboard never seems to work the way you want it to?

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by Less

Somehow jaysay I get the feeling you might mean the 1960's?

How come your keyboard never seems to work the way you want it to?

Quite correct Less, the flaming spell check don't correct dates, I did mean 1960s, mind you don't think I can blame the keyboard on this occasion it was all my own work

[Mancie]

Originally Posted by jaysay

Mancie is obsessed with Tories Wynonie, (as in the hatred of) but what he doesn't realise is the political system he most favours is totally flawed, all this everybody is equal to the revolution brothers doesn't work now and has never worked in the past, even in the animal kingdom there is always the Alpha Male and Female in any pack.

cor blimey it's Doctor Mengle...next thing we know you'll be experimenting on twins... carry on then we can all see the truth about Tories.

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by Mancie

cor blimey it's Doctor Mengle...next thing we know you'll be experimenting on twins... carry on then we can all see the truth about Tories.

The truth about the Tories Mancie is they are the only ones capable of put right the wrongs always left by Labour, there has never been a successful Labour government in history, they have always left a disaster behind for others the clean up, and believe me this latest shower take the biscuit, we will be left with a massive debt while Gordon swans off back to Scotland and disappear into obscurity

[Stumped]

Originally Posted by jaysay

The truth about the Tories Mancie is they are the only ones capable of put right the wrongs always left by Labour, there has never been a successful Labour government in history, they have always left a disaster behind for others the clean up, and believe me this latest shower take the biscuit, we will be left with a massive debt while Gordon swans off back to Scotland and disappear into obscurity

Not forgetting the hundreds of Britain's brave young fighting men that they have sacrificed in two illegal wars - and for what?

[Eric]

Originally Posted by Mancie

the USA poured cash into the then West Germany because of the threat of Russian communism.. as they did in Japan.
lets get things striaght..the red army held Berlin ..they took over and then invited the US army in.
the USA had no option other than attcking Russia which they did not use...instead they took the decision to re-build the parts they owned rather than let the then Russian communists take over. we all know the Yanks are obsessed with communities that don't work the way they like.

Yup ... I think I'll go along with this .... naked self interest on the part of the US.

[SPUGGIE J]

The US had an agreement with the USSR to meet on the Elber and the US armies arrived,sat on their bahookies and waited for the USSR to show up.

[Eric]

Originally Posted by SPUGGIE J

The US had an agreement with the USSR to meet on the Elber and the US armies arrived,sat on their bahookies and waited for the USSR to show up.

By 1945, the western allies would still have been in England trying to figure out how to get across the channel if it had not been for the efforts of Soviet armies in The Great Patriotic War.

[steeljack]

Originally Posted by Eric

Yup ... I think I'll go along with this .... naked self interest on the part of the US.

Big Bad Americans again , amazing how you all dislike us , but are first in-line to play 'monkey see , monkey do " ,