What's the use?

[Stumped]

Now that we have been been browbeaten into accepting the Lisbon Treaty and thrown into the melting pot of the European Union, will there any point in voting come the next general election as, like it or not, Brussels will rool the roost from now on!

[cashman]

Was there any point before it was ratified?

[MargaretR]

Democracy is dying the death.
Who knows what will come next -maybe we will have a revolution against dictatorship.
Whatever transpires, people get the government they deserve - we are seeing the results of apathy.

[Wynonie Harris]

Certainly wouldn't vote for either of the main parties as they both lied about giving us a referendum on this...didn't they, all you Labour and Tory party members out there?

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by Wynonie Harris

Certainly wouldn't vote for either of the main parties as they both lied about giving us a referendum on this...didn't they, all you Labour and Tory party members out there?

Sorry Wynonie, don't agree, Labour have sold use down the river AGAIN, there is no point of the next Tory Government holding a referendum on the Lisbon Treaty as its will have been in force for six months prior to any change in Britain, the Lisbon Treaty will be law in December thanks to Brown, but Cameron has said that the next Government will ensure that this will never be allowed to happen again and will pass laws which state that British interests will be put before European, as well as renegotiating parts of European law. For the Tories to ave any sort of a vote on the Lisbon Treaty would be totally futile and waste of money (these exercises don't come cheap) you can't unratify something that is already law

[Benipete]

Looks like we could be heading for a hung parliament.

Who would you hang first?The list is endless.

[Wynonie Harris]

Originally Posted by jaysay

Sorry Wynonie, don't agree, Labour have sold use down the river AGAIN, there is no point of the next Tory Government holding a referendum on the Lisbon Treaty as its will have been in force for six months prior to any change in Britain, the Lisbon Treaty will be law in December thanks to Brown, but Cameron has said that the next Government will ensure that this will never be allowed to happen again and will pass laws which state that British interests will be put before European, as well as renegotiating parts of European law. For the Tories to ave any sort of a vote on the Lisbon Treaty would be totally futile and waste of money (these exercises don't come cheap) you can't unratify something that is already law

In that case, he shouldn't have made a "cast-iron" promise on it in his attempt to look tough on Europe.

I'll tell you one way to solve it, though, Jaysay - how about the next Tory government having a referendum on the whole question of our EU membership? You know in your heart of hearts he wouldn't dare, because he knows what the answer would be! Much better to carry on with the illusion that somehow we can be part of the EU but still independent!

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by Wynonie Harris

In that case, he shouldn't have made a "cast-iron" promise on it in his attempt to look tough on Europe.

I'll tell you one way to solve it, though, Jaysay - how about the next Tory government having a referendum on the whole question of our EU membership? You know in your heart of hearts he wouldn't dare, because he knows what the answer would be! Much better to carry on with the illusion that somehow we can be part of the EU but still independent!

As you know Wynonie I'm no great fan of Europe, but in the scheme of things coming out now and going independent would be counter productive, so many British firms are tied up in the EU. When the common market was set up it was for trade purposes only not to form a supper state run by new best buddies Germany and France. I can only hope that Blair is not the first President of this fiasco, and sods of to the states on his 100,000k a night lecture circuit

[andrewb]

Originally Posted by Wynonie Harris

In that case, he shouldn't have made a "cast-iron" promise on it in his attempt to look tough on Europe.

I'll tell you one way to solve it, though, Jaysay - how about the next Tory government having a referendum on the whole question of our EU membership? You know in your heart of hearts he wouldn't dare, because he knows what the answer would be! Much better to carry on with the illusion that somehow we can be part of the EU but still independent!

Easy trap to fall into. The "cast-iron" promise was about a referendum before Lisbon was ratified. In all reality as much as it pains me to say it, now that it has been ratified it would take all 27 countries to undo it. Previous to ratification we had the power to say no. It's Brown we have to blame.

I want an in or out referendum. We actually have the power to legislate on the result of that referendum, unlike a post ratification referendum on Lisbon. I don't want it come what may however. If you had one now Labour and the Liberal Democrats would use the economy to fool voters into remaining in the EU. Just like what happened in Ireland over Lisbon. They'd then argue forevermore that the British public gave them a mandate to keep on course to a federal Europe. Something we can both agree is not what we want. We want a sovereign Britannia.

[Wynonie Harris]

Originally Posted by andrewb

Easy trap to fall into. The "cast-iron" promise was about a referendum before Lisbon was ratified. In all reality as much as it pains me to say it, now that it has been ratified it would take all 27 countries to undo it. Previous to ratification we had the power to say no. It's Brown we have to blame.

I want an in or out referendum. We actually have the power to legislate on the result of that referendum, unlike a post ratification referendum on Lisbon. I don't want it come what may however. If you had one now Labour and the Liberal Democrats would use the economy to fool voters into remaining in the EU. Just like what happened in Ireland over Lisbon. They'd then argue forevermore that the British public gave them a mandate to keep on course to a federal Europe. Something we can both agree is not what we want. We want a sovereign Britannia.

Funny how this qualification about ratification was never mentioned when David was pretending to be all Euro-sceptic and banging on about "cast-iron guarantees" but never mind. As for holding a referendum on some mythical future date, you know as well as I do, Andrew, that the Tories will never do that!

[***Mr D***]

This is all part of the agenda for one world goverment.

[MargaretR]

Originally Posted by ***Mr D***

This is all part of the agenda for one world goverment.

..Coming soon to a country(cinema) near you

[garinda]

European President?

What the hell!

The last time we had a referendum on Europe, it was sold as an economic alliance, not as the birth of the United States of Europe.

The Soviet Union, the bringing together of totally disparate countries, under the umberella governing of one super state, didn't work, and neither will this.

It'll end in tears being shed, if not blood.

[accyman]

while our troops are fighting for other countries freedom who exactly is fighting for ours ?

unelected priminister and now not even asked about this or even allowed to vot on either of the two


i just think the UK has a lot of nerve marching into other countries telling them democracey is the way to do things yet dont allow its own people the same courtesy

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by garinda

European President?

What the hell!

The last time we had a referendum on Europe, it was sold as an economic alliance, not as the birth of the United States of Europe.

The Soviet Union, the bringing together of totally disparate countries, under the umberella governing of one super state, didn't work, and neither will this.

It'll end in tears being shed, if not blood.

Think you've nailed that to the wall exactly Rindi