Where do you draw the line?

[Margaret Pilkington]

Originally Posted by Neil

It was murder and I am surprised you justified it to yourself like that. He was no threat to the soldiers, he had been disarmed and was a prisoner.
Next you will be saying is was right what the Japs did to our soldiers in WW2 or what the Russians and Germans did to each other soldiers.

Do you know for sure he was not going to be a threat to the soldiers?
No, I will not say that what the germans or the japanese did to our soldiers was right...or for that matter any uniformed soldier in any other conflict.
But these are terrorist fighters..not in uniform, so they are not easy to determine whether they are part of taliban forces or whether they are civilians.
Did you know that once the poppy harvest is over village males go to fight for the taliban and get get the equivalent of ten dollars a day for doing so?
So a man who one day was a civilian, suddenly becomes a soldier, until he is perhaps captured and then he becomes a civilain again for his defence.
This conflict is not like WW1 or WW2...the lines of who the enemy is are blurred.
If this man is given a life sentence then shouldn't someone put Tony Blair into the dock too....for his war crimes?

I don't think I justified murder....I said that this man was as much a casualty of the conflict as those who are maimed, injured and killed.
I made an observation that he was killing them before they killed him...and I do not see that as a justification .....it is what happens in conflict.
I suppose it is alright that the taliban hung the body parts of British lads from trees...and before you tell me that two wrongs don't make a right...I know that , but if they want to use such tactics then they should be prepared to have them used agains them. The Geneva convention means nothing to them.
Isn't there a saying...All's fair in Love and War?

[Barrie Yates]

Originally Posted by Restless

I think that is a urban myth more than anything jaysay

That is certainly what they believe will await them in their paradise.

[Restless]

Originally Posted by Barrie Yates

That is certainly what they believe will await them in their paradise.

Those that duped so bad that they take thier own life for their cause must be promised something daft. Sad as it is that these weak exploitable people are out there.

The quoran is now available in English. One could read it and see if there is anything there about 70+ virgins

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by Restless

I think that is a urban myth more than anything jaysay

Well its supposed to be in the Islamic good book about martyrs receiving these gifts on entering the afterlife

[DaveinGermany]

Here you go Rob,

Allah’s Paradise

• Each Muslim is allotted 72 virgins (huris). [Sunan Ibn Majah, Book of Abstinence, 39] who remain perpetually virginal, and they are full-breasted and free from menstruation or other eliminations. [Al Ghazzali, The Revival of the Religious Sciences, Vol. 4, Death and Subsequent Events, p. 430. See also Surah 56:35 and 78:33]
• The Garden is flowing with rivers of milk, honey, crystal-clear water, and wine. [Surah 47:15]
• Dwellers in Paradise are served on golden dishes and drink from golden goblets. [Surah 43:71]
• Dwellers recline on comfortable, soft couches; they are adorned with bracelets of gold and wear garments of fine silk and heavy brocade. [Surah 18:31]
• Trees will spread around them, and they feel neither the scorching heat nor the biting cold. [Surah 76:14]
• Even the dregs of their purest wine smells like musk. [83:26]

Sounds pretty good doesn't it? That is until you realize that when you ignited that explosive vest, your Gentlemens vegetables were vaporised & spread on the winds across the Uhlu!


Ain't life a Bitch?

[Margaret Pilkington]

Oh Son! I do like your turn of phrase.....'gentlemans vegetables'.
I am so glad I do not imbibe at my desk...but I have had to change my grunnies again...twice in one day...it isn't good is it?

[Restless]

If that is fetched from the internet then I wouldn't trust its source. If I had time I would have the audio book of the quoran and search for this....but really I am not that interested....That research can be saved for DtheP...

A friend of mine bought "A history of cannabis" poster off the internet and that stated that mohammmed said it was ok for muslims to smoke cannabis, but not drink alcohol. Now are we also to believe this ?

[Neil]

Originally Posted by Retlaw

Them Afghans have a completely different mind set, they view our attitude as a weakness, if they had rendered first aid, brought him back with them and he recovered, he would most likely have gone on to kill another British soldier.
As John Wayne said the only good injun is a dead injun, as he fired his Winchester .44. The only good terrorist is a dead terrorist no matter how or who kills him.
The one that should be punished is the clown who filmed it.
When my old mate and his platoon arrived in Belsen, one of the platoon was so enraged he shot the first german he saw, the platoon officer just said we'll have no more of that, and that was the end of the matter.

You didn't comment if you agreed with the Japs and what they did in WW2. They saw our compassion and humanity as a weekness. I see it as our greatest strength.

[Eric]

Originally Posted by Neil

It was murder

Reminds me of a line in "Apocalypse Now" .... goes something like this: Charging someone with murder in Afghanistan is like handing out speeding tickets in the Indy 500

[Neil]

Originally Posted by Eric

Reminds me of a line in "Apocalypse Now" .... goes something like this: Charging someone with murder in Afghanistan is like handing out speeding tickets in the Indy 500

See my post above about the Japs in WW2, it's because we are better than them and if we drop to their murdering level then there is even less point to us being there.

[Margaret Pilkington]

Neil, we should never have been there in the first place.....it was political hubris that took us into that situation, a situation that many others had tried to control and had failed at.

No conflict can be civilised...it doesn't matter what level of compassion is shown by troops and the medical teams which accompany the forces.

[Neil]

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

Neil, we should never have been there in the first place.....it was political hubris that took us into that situation, a situation that many others had tried to control and had failed at.

I agree

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

No conflict can be civilised...it doesn't matter what level of compassion is shown by troops and the medical teams which accompany the forces.

I agree again but you don't kill captured soldiers/terrorists/prisoners. They are soldiers not executioners. Our whole civilization relies on rules and justice. Sorry if I am naive but that's what I believe.

[Eric]

Originally Posted by Neil

See my post above about the Japs in WW2, it's because we are better than them and if we drop to their murdering level then there is even less point to us being there.

I think that we expect too much of our troops ... Isn't it enough that they put themselves in harm's way for us? "We sleep safely in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm." Or, as Orwell put it, "Those who abjure violence can do so only because others are committing violence on their behalf." Support our troops/Appuyons nos troupes

[Margaret Pilkington]

Yes Neil.....I can understand your views and your beliefs.
Life would be very boring if we all subscribed to the same views.
We only know what the media want to tell us.....we are not really in possession of all the information.
As I said previously, I feel for the soldier and his family......they have to live with the consequences of this action for the rest of their lives.

[Restless]

Isn't "japs" an offensive derogatory term? Bit confusing since Craig Charles uses it all the time on takechi castle "look at that happy clappy jappy chappy"