Where is our NHS money going?

[Accyexplorer]

I mean when government cuts funding,and allows third parties to profit from our public services it can only be a bad thing.
In order for these companies to profit there has to be something that gives.

You know as well as I do that those in power would sell their own grannies if they seen there was a profit to be made

[Margaret Pilkington]

All businesses are in business to make a profit.

which cuts are you referring to and how is the private company running a service making a profit?
Are these firms charging the end user...or just billing the NHS?

I know that some surgical/diagnostic services have been contracted out to private hospitals(like Gisburn Park.....or Beardwood) and this is often done to remain on the tick list provided by the government.....so that targets are met. This isn't to provide for a CLINICAL NEED.
This is where money could be saved....ditching the targets and box ticking mentality.

Also local services are heavily tied into the Private Finance Initiative....this was something that the Labour administration thought would bamboozle Joe public into thinking that they were getting nice shiny new facilities......however, would you take on a debt that you didn't know how much it would cost in the long term?......one where you were tied into using Balfour Beattie services at exorbitant costs rather than your in house works department.....carpentry, electricians, plumbers etc?

Very many uneconomic(plain daft) decisions were taken by people in government which saddled hospitals with increasing bills......while at the same time trying to provide services for an aging community with poor socio economic backgrounds. Multi ethnicities complicate this still further.........so it was bound to end up in a mess.

[Accyexplorer]

I enjoy your wisdom on the topic M,I was referring to government cuts to the NHS in general.
All I'm saying is,the list of private companies that have a influence in our healthcare system is snowballing and I don't like it,government should be proud of it, not selling it off willy nilly.
Having spent time in both, private and NHS run hospitals, I know which I prefer and its not the one run by Branson and co.....The nhs run hospital had a better all round approach to care it and it even had more staff lurking about.
For now,I'll just keep my fingers crossed that I'm not sick at the weekend

[Margaret Pilkington]

i have, over the last couple of years, seen more of the insides and workings of the NHS than I want to.
While not all of my visits have been fantastic, very few have been anything you would complain about.
In the main, most of the care that has been delivered has been of the best quality.

Many people ramble on about the NHS and its failings.......many people talk about cuts.....without really qualifying what they mean.
I can only say what my own experiences have been.....and mainly these have been in hospital environments, both in my working life more recently as the relative of users of the service.

Over the years the NHS has been detrimentally meddled with by people who want to use the service as a political football, with no thoughts of consequences for the users.
These people who have meddled know absolutely diddley squat about how the NHS should be run and managed.
That has been the biggest problem over the years......and not one of political parties are exempt from blame. The last labour government spent money that we didn't have, but encouraged trusts to saddle themselves with unreasonable debts just so the debts did not appear on a government balance sheet.....did I hear you ranting and raving about that then?

The NHS is like a huge ocean going liner....it takes a long time (and a lot of effort) to turn it around.
One government would want you to do one thing......another one would get in and reverse these requirements.
There is far too much time spent ticking boxes, meeting targets....not letting clinically trained staff make policy decisions about what constitutes clinical need....it is all about what looks good on a balance sheet.
People are not tins of beans. You cannot run the NHS like a supermarket.

[Neil]

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

You have to be on pension credits or some other benefits to get free dental treatment.
A check up for me at 68 costs just short of £20.....,if I need any treatment after my check up then that is charged on a 'band system' but the first band is £50 or thereabouts.

Much more worrying in relation to NHS costs is those who come from abroad and should be subject to costs, but fail to pay.
I know of some families who bring their elderly parents and grandparents into the country in order for them to get medical treatment without charge......and then when these are going home home go back with a bagful of medications for which they have paid nothing.
They tell the GP that they are going to be out of the country for 3 months or so......and prescriptions are issued.
You and I will only get a script for a month at a time.

I get 3 monthly prescriptions when I ask for them for regular medicine.

This is why we should have ID cards in this country to prove we should be here and what we are entitled to. There is no sensible reason for not having ID cards, just paranoia from the tin foil hat wearing brigade

[Neil]

Originally Posted by MargaretR

I always pay for my paracetamol myself, for that very reason.
If I had asked my doc for them the cost would be excessive....

£80 million is spent on paracetomol according to this newspaper NHS spends on £80 million a year on paracetamol prescriptions - Telegraph


It says the cost can be 80 times what it can be bought for in the supermarket.

Here is a far out idea, why don't we allow the doctors to buy it from Asda and give it out instead of the prescription?

Far to much like common sense for the NHS

[cashman]

Originally Posted by Neil

£80 million is spent on paracetomol according to this newspaper NHS spends on £80 million a year on paracetamol prescriptions - Telegraph


It says the cost can be 80 times what it can be bought for in the supermarket.

Here is a far out idea, why don't we allow the doctors to buy it from Asda and give it out instead of the prescription?

Far to much like common sense for the NHS

Trouble is neil yeh can only buy 2 packets of 16 from supermarkets, docs would be there all day.I'm convinced theres a big fiddle going on, cos we all know how cheap certain things are.

[Margaret Pilkington]

I would imagine that the money spent on paracetamol is not just the folk taking scripts to the chemists...but much of that cost will be for the intravenous version of the drug...which is used extensively and successfully as IV post operative pain relief.

I cannot imagine anyone who pays for their meds to be daft enough to pay £8.20 for paracetamol.......at 16p a packet you could buy 51 packs for that amount......that is 102 days supply taken at the maximum dose.
The telegraph article makes it sound as though all this money is being spent for scripts handed over at local chemists.......but I think this may be a bit of journalistic licence.

Drugs which the NHS buys cheaply but get £8.20 a throw for subsidise the drugs which cost vastly more.

Hospitals are trying to minimise drug costs by getting patients to bring in and use their own meds from home.......this is something which I campaigned for when I was managing a ward......and lots of fake objections were put up as to why it could not be done.

As for ID cards......I do not want an ID card to prove I am entitled to my health care.
I have an NHS number that should be sufficient ID.

[Retlaw]

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

I cannot imagine anyone who pays for their meds to be daft enough to pay
Hospitals are trying to minimise drug costs by getting patients to bring in and use their own meds from home.

The last member of my family to go in that so called hospital at Blegburn did just that, and it turned out that when she cme to be discharged there were none left, they had been using them on other patients who hadn't brought theirs, One of the nurses got a new prescription and said I'l be back in 10 mins, the bitch went for her dinner and when she came back and was asked why it had taken so long, she got uptight and refused to had over the pills. Some of them nurses are expected to be treated as if they were gods angels, but in effect do as little as possible. I had an accident earlier this year and refused point blank to go to that meat factory in Blegburn, instead I went to Accy Vic where they are more considerate and they glued the wound on my head back together again.

[Margaret Pilkington]

Did you make a formal complaint about this incident?
You should have done. These incidents need to be investigated.
Was the incident reported to the senior Nurse on duty?
On every ward there is a board which tells you who the person in charge is.
If you did not report it then here is entirely the wrong place to publicise your dissatisfaction.
It is both unfair and unreasonable, as you gave the staff in question no opportunity to put right the things you complain about....or even to put their side of the situation.
Also on discharge the hospital will supply medications to tide the patient over until,they see their own doctor.....these are called 'take home medicines'.

[Barrie Yates]

Originally Posted by Retlaw

The last member of my family to go in that so called hospital at Blegburn did just that, and it turned out that when she cme to be discharged there were none left, they had been using them on other patients who hadn't brought theirs, One of the nurses got a new prescription and said I'l be back in 10 mins, the bitch went for her dinner and when she came back and was asked why it had taken so long, she got uptight and refused to had over the pills. Some of them nurses are expected to be treated as if they were gods angels, but in effect do as little as possible. I had an accident earlier this year and refused point blank to go to that meat factory in Blegburn, instead I went to Accy Vic where they are more considerate and they glued the wound on my head back together again.

Last year I went into that place for a minor operation (keyhole). Operation late afternoon, 0220 following morning I was shivering so asked a nurse for another blanket - a few minutes later she returned to tell me there were none, and she went back into the Day Room (opposite my room), and continued to no doubt carry on with her gossiping with the other staff. Raging infection sorted by the day Sister and the Boss insisted that I be discharged that afternoon.
Incarcerated twice in that place - two infections and the first time I hadn't had an operation.
In a 10 day stay the ward floor was never mopped so what else isn't cleaned properly?????????????

[Margaret Pilkington]

Again, may I ask if you made any complaint or mention of your concerns to the person in charge?
If you did not then you should have.
As I have said to Retlaw, this is not the place to air your dissatisfaction as nothing can be done to rectify any concerns.
Things can only be improved if mention is made of shortcomings.
When I was in charge of a unit, complaints were always looked into, the complainant was kept informed of the results of the investigation and what was done to rectify the problems highlighted.
There is a rigorous complaints protocol which staff have to comply with.

[Margaret Pilkington]

I would say to ANYONE who has had an unsatisfactory experience in hospital....REPORT IT.
if you do not then others may be subjected to similar treatment.
Let the hospital know when they are getting it wrong......if you do NOT tell them how are they supposed to know?
How are they supposed to put right what is wrong?
Everyone who has a good experience may tell no one.....but those who have an unhappy experience will tell as many people who will listen, but will fail to tell those who can put things right.
Now, do you think it is fair or reasonable for this to happen?
If you were doing something wrong, but nobody brought your inadequacies to your attention, but told everyone else....how would you feel about that?
I can tell you that the vast majority of staff who work in the local hospitals have their patients best interests at heart....but like all very large organisations, there will be the exception to test the rule.....these staff need to know and appreciate that they got it wrong.

[MITZY]

17 month ago my husband was in Blackburn for 3 weeks after an accident, I have nothing but praise for the staff from the day he was admitted to the day he was discharged. I know he probably gave them hell at times but they took it all in their stride.

[Margaret Pilkington]

Originally Posted by Retlaw

The last member of my family to go in that so called hospital at Blegburn did just that, and it turned out that when she cme to be discharged there were none left, they had been using them on other patients who hadn't brought theirs, One of the nurses got a new prescription and said I'l be back in 10 mins, the bitch went for her dinner and when she came back and was asked why it had taken so long, she got uptight and refused to had over the pills. Some of them nurses are expected to be treated as if they were gods angels, but in effect do as little as possible. I had an accident earlier this year and refused point blank to go to that meat factory in Blegburn, instead I went to Accy Vic where they are more considerate and they glued the wound on my head back together again.

Shame on you Retlaw for the derogatory way you speak of the nurses.(even if they did not come up to your standards.....you would hate for someone to speak of one of your daughters in such a way)
It is totally unwarranted and gives absolutely no weight to your post.
You could quite easily have made your point without name calling.