Where is our NHS money going?

[Jim Procter]

i ask this question because of an incident yesterday concerning my wife who is 81She had gone to her dentist for a regular checkup.She has a palette and a few of her own teeth left and the dentist gave her a cursory check over which lasted a couple of minutes.He then said that she needed a mouth wash and he would issue a prescription.Although because of her age the cost to my wife is nil, there must be considerable cost to the NHS.I don't know what a dentist charges for a consultation but it won't come cheap and then there was the added cost of writing the prescription. She then took the prescription to the chemist who would also make a charge to the NHS and the chemist finally walked to his display of remedies and took mouth wash from the shelf costing £1-29.I can't help feeling something is sadly wrong here.Any comments?

[MargaretR]

I always pay for my paracetemol myself, for that very reason.
If I had asked my doc for them the cost would be excessive.

Another area where NHS prescription fraud is rife - people claiming to be exempt from charges when they should pay.
I suppose they justify their action because in Scotland and Wales they are free.

[Margaret Pilkington]

You have to be on pension credits or some other benefits to get free dental treatment.
A check up for me at 68 costs just short of £20.....,if I need any treatment after my check up then that is charged on a 'band system' but the first band is £50 or thereabouts.

Much more worrying in relation to NHS costs is those who come from abroad and should be subject to costs, but fail to pay.
I know of some families who bring their elderly parents and grandparents into the country in order for them to get medical treatment without charge......and then when these are going home home go back with a bagful of medications for which they have paid nothing.
They tell the GP that they are going to be out of the country for 3 months or so......and prescriptions are issued.
You and I will only get a script for a month at a time.

[cashman]

I have packed mine in, its ridiculous, have had false teeth since i was 27, yet they still expect me to go n pay fer regular check ups, stupid when theres sod all wrong n i will obviously go if a problem develops.

[accyman]

Originally Posted by MargaretR

I suppose they justify their action because in Scotland and Wales they are free.

then isnt it time they pay like everyone else

i am exempt through a medical condition but i fully understand why people tick the i dont have to pay box especially when the doctor prescribes 4 or 5 items

not saying is right but maybe if the welsh and scottish paid their way like the rest of us the prescription charges wouldnt have to be as high as they are and people would be less likely to defraud the system

mind you they would get all upset and want a referendum on leaving the UK but who then would pay for their prescriptions ?

[Hill Walker]

Originally Posted by accyman

then isnt it time they pay like everyone else

i am exempt through a medical condition but i fully understand why people tick the i dont have to pay box especially when the doctor prescribes 4 or 5 items

not saying is right but maybe if the welsh and scottish paid their way like the rest of us the prescription charges wouldnt have to be as high as they are and people would be less likely to defraud the system

mind you they would get all upset and want a referendum on leaving the UK but who then would pay for their prescriptions ?

I think there is a small misunderstanding here. In mainland Britain there are three completely separate health bodies with their own separate budgets. In both Scotland and Wales the health services are devolved, which means that they take a slice of money from the devolved administrations budget. The amount they receive is locally determined, more money for health means less money for education, roads and whatever other services have been devolved.
Now you may think this is right or wrong but either way it has no influence on the NHS which operates only in England. Not only are the budgets locally determined but also the services offered, for example in Wales the prescriptions are free but there is no Cancer Drugs Fund. For details of the history and status of NHS Scotland see :-
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NHS_Scotland
Likewise for Wales:-
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NHS_Wales
Likewise for England
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NHS_England

In brief three separate organisations with three separate budgets and three separate services.

[accyman]

i think the misunderstanding comes from it been called the NATIONAL health service

clearly it isnt if that is the case

i think the UK needs to decide if it is united or not and either split the 4 countries or pull them all in under the same rules , laws , currency etc

somethings keeping scotland and wales tied to us but i dont think its their love of england so it must be something else

[Hill Walker]

Originally Posted by accyman

i think the misunderstanding comes from it been called the NATIONAL health service

clearly it isnt if that is the case

i think the UK needs to decide if it is united or not and either split the 4 countries or pull them all in under the same rules , laws , currency etc

somethings keeping scotland and wales tied to us but i dont think its their love of england so it must be something else

Actually they were separate before devolution, Scotland from 1948, and Wales from 1969, not sure about Northern Ireland (too complicated!).

[Gordon Booth]

Originally Posted by Hill Walker

I think there is a small misunderstanding here. In mainland Britain there are three completely separate health bodies with their own separate budgets. In both Scotland and Wales the health services are devolved, which means that they take a slice of money from the devolved administrations budget. The amount they receive is locally determined, more money for health means less money for education, roads and whatever other services have been devolved.

You forget The Barnett Formula.
Under this, from UK Government central funds, Scotland receives over £1600 more per person than England, Wales over £1200 per person more.
They don't have to spend less on other services, they've a lot more available to spend on the NHS or whatever services they wish to.
So yes, the English are subsidising free prescriptions in Scotland and Wales.

[Margaret Pilkington]

Originally Posted by cashman

I have packed mine in, its ridiculous, have had false teeth since i was 27, yet they still expect me to go n pay fer regular check ups, stupid when theres sod all wrong n i will obviously go if a problem develops.

Like you, my husband has dentures. His dental checks are every two years.
He pays the same as me for his check, but because he only goes every two years it works out at round about ten quid a year....that is good value for money.
Spotting the signs of mouth cancer surely must be worth this small outlay.
I do not LIKE going to the dentist, but it is a necessary evil....and I now see that it is better to get treatment than trying do it yourself dentistry....the filing down of broken teeth is not to be recommended.(this is what I used to do before conquering my fear of the dentist).

[cashman]

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

Like you, my husband has dentures. His dental checks are every two years.
He pays the same as me for his check, but because he only goes every two years it works out at round about ten quid a year....that is good value for money.
Spotting the signs of mouth cancer surely must be worth this small outlay.
I do not LIKE going to the dentist, but it is a necessary evil....and I now see that it is better to get treatment than trying do it yourself dentistry....the filing down of broken teeth is not to be recommended.(this is what I used to do before conquering my fear of the dentist).

I had to go every 12 months, its the principal as far as i'm concerned, i paid N.I. all me working life plus all me dues n now i'm retired i have to pay the dentist, not in my lifetime.By the way ive been seeing a specialist oer 2yrs now oer me gob, so he will tell me, i see him every 6 months now, last time i paid the dentist they told me to see me doc, so whats the point?

[Hill Walker]

Originally Posted by Gordon Booth

You forget The Barnett Formula.
Under this, from UK Government central funds, Scotland receives over £1600 more per person than England, Wales over £1200 per person more.
They don't have to spend less on other services, they've a lot more available to spend on the NHS or whatever services they wish to.
So yes, the English are subsidising free prescriptions in Scotland and Wales.

No I didn't forget the Barnett Formula, that can be argued about endlessly. I simply wished to point out that there were three different setups and that the various trade-offs and priorities were determined locally. This setup might be right or wrong, I do not comment on that.

[accyman]

im sure arguments could be put forward for both cases but my personal opinion is that scotland and wales get a lot more benefit been tied to us than we do to them

although scotland does get a good kicking every now and then from government when they want to try out a new tax like the poll tax for example.Seems most unpopular laws or taxes get tried out a year in advance in scotland and if the jocks roll over the government thinks the english will too

[Accyexplorer]

To me,our NHS seems to be deliberately being messed up to encourage privatisation.
My guess is our NHS money is going on holidays and Xboxes for those who desperately need these things in order to live with their illnesses that and the NHS tourists

[Margaret Pilkington]

What do you mean by privatisation?
The Hinchingbrooke hospital is run by a private company, but the care is still part of the NHS......and free at the point of service. So does that make it private or NHS?

This hospital has an excellent reputation for care and for making good use of resources, but the CQC were bamboozled into giving it a poor score...purely because it was run by a private company.

There is going to be private enterprise in some aspects of the health service......supplying consumables....the NHS uses companies that are in the business to make a profit.
Where money could be saved is in getting the best deal from companies by getting them to supply.....say, dressings.(just as an example, but there are many such supply issues)
Whichever company wins the contract is going to have huge volume sales to the NHS and if exclusivity can mean a better deal ( that means good quality at a reduced cost) then that is what should be aimed for.

The main problem is that the administration is expensive......agency care staff are expensive, locum doctors are expensive and companies know that when an agency nurse, or a locum doctor is required they have the service by the short and curlies.
The NHS is often slated by people who know nothing of the internal workings of this organisation.
Box ticking and target reaching should be abandoned.....they are not indicators of how the service runs, they are meaningless figures concocted to make Joe public feel like something is being done.....smoke and mirrors.
The NHS cannot be run like a supermarket....it is far too complex.