Where will this madness end?

[jedimaster]

Originally Posted by cashman

Yer missing the point completely jedi, everyone certainly has the right to celebrate their beliefs, but they sure as hell aint any right to stop the host country celebrating theres.

that's my point cashy, they already have, we traditionally are a nation of pagan and celtic beliefs christianity was brought by the invaders of this fine nation, who in a bid to "civilise" our fine nation began to celebrate the birth of their messiah at the same time as our traditional midwinter festival SATURNALIA ( celebrating the birth of the sun god) so as to incorporate us into THEIR religion, considering the fact that scriptually jesus was born in approximately september there is no other reason why his birth should be celebrated on the 25th december. However I accept it as part of our multicultural society and am happy for people to celebrate it how they wish.
I also agree with the magic that is in the air at this time of year for our children with the lights,presents and of course the jolly man in red (a marketing ploy on behalf of coca cola) and would not wish to destroy it for them, However I do not agree with the way that (as all religions do) christianity is portrayed as the one and only true religion at this time of year. Forget not that jesus was a hebrew and as such, technically all true believers should of course celebrate chanuka, or festival of lights at this time of year yet only the jewish faith does.

[jedimaster]

just another side point, don't forget that christianity was FORCED on the people of this country by the roman catholic church and such devices as the inquisition (along with a few corrupt churchmen)

[Margaret Pilkington]

We were in Asda yesterday...in the doorway there is a Christmas tree with names of disadvantaged children on it....the idea is to take the name of a child off the tree, buy a gift and then hand it in to customer services along with the tag.....they will then see that the child receives the gift.
I noticed that there were asian names on the tree(and yes, I do know that there are indians who are christians) but if these names relate to muslim children, then they are not so offended by Christmas, if they allow these children to be given a Christmas gift.

[garinda]

Originally Posted by jedimaster

that's my point cashy, they already have, we traditionally are a nation of pagan and celtic beliefs christianity was brought by the invaders of this fine nation, who in a bid to "civilise" our fine nation began to celebrate the birth of their messiah at the same time as our traditional midwinter festival SATURNALIA ( celebrating the birth of the sun god) so as to incorporate us into THEIR religion, considering the fact that scriptually jesus was born in approximately september there is no other reason why his birth should be celebrated on the 25th december. However I accept it as part of our multicultural society and am happy for people to celebrate it how they wish.
I also agree with the magic that is in the air at this time of year for our children with the lights,presents and of course the jolly man in red (a marketing ploy on behalf of coca cola) and would not wish to destroy it for them, However I do not agree with the way that (as all religions do) christianity is portrayed as the one and only true religion at this time of year. Forget not that jesus was a hebrew and as such, technically all true believers should of course celebrate chanuka, or festival of lights at this time of year yet only the jewish faith does.

You're wrong.

Christianity wasn't brought to Britain by warring 'invaders'.

It's widely accepted that it was St. Augustine, who first brought Christianity to these shores, in 597 A.D.

More or less midway between the last two times mainland Britain was invaded, first by the Romans, and lastly by the Normans.

I'm an atheist, but living in a country with a long Christian heritage, I shall be celebrating Christmas.

You can shove your Winter Festival where the mistletoe don't shine.

[garinda]

You'd be better off arguing it was the invading foreign Celts, who brought paganism to these islands.

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by jedimaster

and there was me thinking we were a multicultural society! so much for your so called tolerance, personally I believe that everyone has the right to celebrate what they want, how they want. I celebrate the midwinter festival at the same time as others celebrate christmas yet you say I should compromise MY beliefs to fit around christan ones? very double standard if you ask me.

Is there something wrong with you or summat, this ain't about you, its about dogooders telling the the indigenous population that we should change the name of Christmas in case it upsets ethic minorities from other religions, the only thing wrong with that is other religions don't give a toss and in a lot of cases celebrate Christmas themselves

[Margaret Pilkington]

Didn't Oliver Cromwell ban Christmas?

[Less]

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

Didn't Oliver Cromwell ban Christmas?

Yes he did, and the miserable booger banned mince pies saying they were papist.

Well I'm no chef but I reckon they are pastry!

[garinda]

We are multi-cultural country. Though one with a mainly Christian heritage.

The majority of people in this country aren't regular attendees, at any place of organised religion. Fact.

Those who are, are freely able to do so.

I've just had a Christmas card off one of my best friends, Tina.

A lovely Geordie lass, who also happens to be proudly part of one of the oldest Jewish families in the north-east.

Being Jewish is her religion, and doesn't define who she is.

She's first and foremost a Geordie.

A Geordie who'll happily wish her mates a happy Christmas.

[garinda]

Originally Posted by Less

Yes he did, and the miserable booger banned mince pies saying they were papist.

Well I'm no chef but I reckon they are pastry!

No booing and hissing in the theatres too, as he closed those as well.

The miserable, puritanical, warty faced sod.

[garinda]

Originally Posted by jedimaster

correct me if I am wrong but the festival celebrated at this time of year was and always has been the midwinter festival, well before the so called arrival of this character they call jesus. Christianity jumped on the bandwagon and took over this festival as their own to incorporate and include the pagan and celtic indigenous people of this country therefore turning it into a multicultural event. It is also I believe, that it is a well known fact that this jesus character was born nowhere near december. NOW WHO'S THE THICK ONE? and in future please try to make your posts a little less personal as if you were to actually meet me you would find that I am a little more intelligent than you seem to think!

Er...the Celts weren't idigenous to Britain.

They invaded these islands.

From where they originated, in what's now Switzerland and Austria, via southern France, and Spain.

[Gordon Booth]

Originally Posted by jedimaster

don't forget that christianity was FORCED on the people of this country by the roman catholic church and such devices as the inquisition (along with a few corrupt churchmen)

Originally Posted by garinda

You're wrong.

Christianity wasn't brought to Britain by warring 'invaders'.

It's widely accepted that it was St. Augustine, who first brought Christianity to these shores, in 597 A.D.

More or less midway between the last two times mainland Britain was invaded, first by the Romans, and lastly by the Normans.

Nor did the Inquisition operate in Britain-it was set up in Spain in the late 1400's and was a purely Spanish operation.
If your King turned Christian it was a good idea to join him-force was rarely needed, just common sense!

[cashman]

Theres n excuse fer this..........Jedi was up sydney st sat night.

[garinda]

Originally Posted by jedimaster

I celebrate the midwinter festival

Originally Posted by jedimaster

poodling round the aisles we had a look at the christmas decorations as it's mini jedi's first christmas this year and although we've just moved in we are trying to make the effort to make it special. Anyhoo, we noticed a motorised santa's train set that goes round the base of the christmas tree.

Shouldn't that read 'midwinter decorations', 'mini Jedi's first midwinter festival', and 'midwinter festival tree'?

Midwinter's commercialised tat sounds pretty much like Christmas's.

Happy midwinter.

[jedimaster]

errm no i'm not wrong, as I quite rightly said, christianity was forced on the people of this country by the roman catholic invaders we were not a christian country until this happened and jesus birth has got naff all to do with the december festival. however i am sure i also pointed out that all faiths and beliefs should be respected and all people in this country should be free to celebrate what they want, how they want free from the prejudice of anyone who believes differently, yet you say I am the one that is in the wrong after telling me where to stick my own beliefs. a very prejudiced view imho.

let us just say (without too much graphic detail) that I have my beliefs and you are welcome to yours. The difference is I would be willing to stand up for you to have those beliefs rather than tell you where to stick them!