Where's it all going to end

[jaysay]

When is this nonsense going to end, the "PC brigade" have decided to rewrite the Mark Twain classic Huckleberry Finn, removing what they call offencive words for today's society, beam me up Scottie. I've only heard three people talk about this all afro caribbean and they were all of the same opinion bloody stupid
sorry the link hasn't worked for some reason

[DaveinGermany]

I read about this yesterday, admittedly there's more coverage in the States than UK, but like the point made by many, should we then change all literature that may offend, should Shakespeare be redone to appease some ?

If it is intrinsic to the time/era & therefore the actual story it should be left alone. Supposedly we are in a more enlightened time & "we know better now" apparently, yet for some that is obviously not the case & proceed to be offended for everyone else.

Our colonial Cousins are somewhat touchy on the subject & I believe more books have likely been banned/restricted in US than UK, our most well known Bard has had a few of his efforts deemed offensive by the Americans see here :-

Banned Books: Shakespeare Censored! - Censored Works of Shakespeare

Now really is this enlightenment ? Oh the joys of living in a PC World !

[Retlaw]

Originally Posted by DaveinGermany

I read about this yesterday, admittedly there's more coverage in the States than UK, but like the point made by many, should we then change all literature that may offend, should Shakespeare be redone to appease some ?

If it is intrinsic to the time/era & therefore the actual story it should be left alone. Supposedly we are in a more enlightened time & "we know better now" apparently, yet for some that is obviously not the case & proceed to be offended for everyone else.

Our colonial Cousins are somewhat touchy on the subject & I believe more books have likely been banned/restricted in US than UK, our most well known Bard has had a few of his efforts deemed offensive by the Americans see here :-

Banned Books: Shakespeare Censored! - Censored Works of Shakespeare

Now really is this enlightenment ? Oh the joys of living in a PC World !

What else can you expect from the Septics,
they dorned even tawk reight neur mind't spellin.

[DaveinGermany]

Think some people may be getting a tad over offended & a little to precious about things don't you ? I've definitely been called worse by better & this just made me grin.

Blackpool fans fury at 'donkey botherers' jibe - Telegraph

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by DaveinGermany

Think some people may be getting a tad over offended & a little to precious about things don't you ? I've definitely been called worse by better & this just made me grin.

Blackpool fans fury at 'donkey botherers' jibe - Telegraph

Donkey botherers, bet your avatar went heehaw ta that one dave

[Margaret Pilkington]

These books are classics, written at a time when there was no such thing as political correctness......meddling with them is like changing history.
It just should not be done.
The writers were the social commentators of the time...they documented how things were at the time when they lived.

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

These books are classics, written at a time when there was no such thing as political correctness......meddling with them is like changing history.
It just should not be done.
The writers were the social commentators of the time...they documented how things were at the time when they lived.

Exactly Margaret, but some people just don't see things that way

[DaveinGermany]

Originally Posted by jaysay

Donkey botherers, bet your avatar went heehaw ta that one dave

Thought someone might want to tap me up ....... anyone ?

[Josie Bloggs]

These are great books, but frm what i remember hearing at the time, certain schools (in the usa) werent reading these because they have words we now think are offensive and were especially offensive because of the historical setting. At least this means they get to read the books. I hope there teacher is afterwards explaining the original words, so they can talk about why theyve changed and try and get rid of the prejudise thats led to this.

[Mancie]

Oh yes.. I reckon this is a really big issue one or two bods out of the 6 billion on this planet might re-write a book.. and you lot take it serious?.. ..half the world is at war and you come up with this kak? got to say you never cease to amaze me..
found a link if it's any good to you:
http://www.parentdish.com/2011/01/05/huckleberry-finn/

[steeljack]

whats beginning to get my 'goat' is that in many school districts in the US, Mark Twain is an 'optional' book choice but at the same time the 'Colour Purple' is requried reading .
I'm sure if I had a teenage boy in school I would much prefer him reading a tale about a rafting trip down the Mississippi than a book about two women doing nasty things to each other , lots of time for him to find about stuff like that later on the internet .

Maybe one of our more 'progressive' /left wing/ politically correct Guardian reading Accy web users can tell us why they think a story of Black Lesbians should be more worthy than a young mans coming of age story.
To my thinking its no better and no worse than Treasure Island , which if I remember correctly featured a naive young lad , a cripple and a blind chap and lots of misuse of of alcohol ..."yo ho ho and a bottle of rum".

[Eric]

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

These books are classics, written at a time when there was no such thing as political correctness......meddling with them is like changing history.
It just should not be done.
The writers were the social commentators of the time...they documented how things were at the time when they lived.

I have to disagree. All books are meddled with. There has been, and there still is, muc ritical debate on the nature of the text, and many bibliographers, me among them, have some serious questions to ask about the confusion of text with artifact ... or confusing the artifact with the experience of reading it. In a real sense, all texts are continually re-written. The English critic, Terry Eagleton, once wrote (I think in his excellent "Literary Criticism") that "every reading is a re-writing." In other words, the experience of reading a particular "book" is unique to every reader; we all read a "different" book, even though we read the same words. Someone mentioned Shakespeare. There are many textual problems with Shakespeare. Most readers are unaware of the problems. And many of the issues do not really detract from the pleasure of reading him. Readers can enjoy "The Merchant of Venice" even tho much of it was not written by Shakespeare. "Hamlet" is as corrupt as most politicians. Students still, no doubt, read "O that this too too solid flesh would melt" ... something that many women would go for ... when any bibliographer can tell you that the Bard wrote "O that this too too sallid(dirty, corrupt) flesh would melt." And writers were not, and are not social commentators. When Shakespeare wrote "Othello", I doubt that he considered Iago's actions were motivated by the fact that a nigger was banging a white chick.

What seems to be at issue here is censorship. By the way Milton's "Areopagitica" is still a good read. And works of art have always survived censorship. Indeed, Shakespeare has survived Thomas Bowdler. Twain will survive small-minded middle America. Methinks "where's it all going to end" smacks of the laddie doth protest too much.

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by Eric

I have to disagree. All books are meddled with. There has been, and there still is, much critical debate on the nature of the text, and many bibliographers, me among them, have some serious questions to ask about the confusion of text with artifact ... or confusing the artifact with the experience of reading it. In a real sense, all texts are continually re-written. The English critic, Terry Eagleton, once wrote (I think in his excellent "Literary Criticism") that "every reading is a re-writing." In other words, the experience of reading a particular "book" is unique to every reader; we all read a "different" book, even though we read the same words. Someone mentioned Shakespeare. There are many textual problems with Shakespeare. Most readers are unaware of the problems. And many of the issues do not really detract from the pleasure of reading him. Readers can enjoy "The Merchant of Venice" even tho much of it was not written by Shakespeare. "Hamlet" is as corrupt as most politicians. Students still, no doubt, read "O that this too too solid flesh would melt" ... something that many women would go for ... when any bibliographer can tell you that the Bard wrote "O that this too too salad(dirty, corrupt) flesh would melt." And writers were not, and are not social commentators. When Shakespeare wrote "Othello", I doubt that he considered Iago's actions were motivated by the fact that a nigger was banging a white chick.

What seems to be at issue here is censorship. By the way Milton's "Areopagitica" is still a good read. And works of art have always survived censorship. Indeed, Shakespeare has survived Thomas Bowdler. Twain will survive small-minded middle America. Methinks "where's it all going to end" smacks of the laddie doth protest too much.

Eric you've got to live in this country to get the gist of the PC brigade, which to me seems far more active than in almost every other country, it won't be long before somebody comes up with an objection to the Black Ball in Snooker or the 8 ball in pool

[Margaret Pilkington]

Eric, it is your prerogative to disagree.
I don't have a problem with that at all. What the writer wrote at the time was in keeping with the life at that time, therefore it provides a social commentary which should not be tampered with.
Tampering with what the writer wrote, is in some kind of way sanitizing it(or at least that is how the PC brigade would have us see it) but because we do not now use the 'N' word for the slaves of the time, doesn't make it right to erase it out of the language of the time.
After all, I am led to believe that the N word has its origins in latin.

I agree that everyone who ever reads a story will be reading it from the perspective of their own experience....and as such will probably put a different cast on it.

Some people will suss out the sub plots, while for others they will go right over their heads.
Also you can read something in your youth which leaves you cold, but read it again later in life and you will be affected by it......because you have matured and become a different person, with more depth.

We read Shakespeare at school.......it mystified us, the language was difficult to comprehend but it came alive when we were whisked off to Manchester to see a performance of 'The Merchant of Venice'.

There is talk of converting the plays of the bard into the common vernacular to make it more acceptable to youngsters in school.......I don't think it is a good idea.
Just take them to see the plays, bring the words alive, don't bastardize the bard.(or any other writer for that matter).

[DaveinGermany]

The point being raised is not so much to do with a word in a book, or for that matter a comment made but the ever increasing level of censorship & enforced change being heaped onto the public at large because someone somewhere finds something offensive.

Admittedly the writings of Twain & Shakespeare were used as examples, but they are not the definitive issue here being discussed. The main focus is about perceived offence, how far are we going to go or allow things to go ? It seems as though in UK you can't have an opinion (free speech) to say something without someone getting upset & feeling offended, demeaned or victimised !

We've had a prime example within the pages of Accy web itself in the not so distant past, the word "P'key" became an issue for one or two people & as such became a non word, outlawed for general use & this is the heart of the issue. Should someone get upset at the word "Muppet" & it's conceived connotations what then ? Is that to be banned ? And before you say "Well that's just stupid, it can't happen ..... can it ?" have a think back over your life time, words we've used in everyday parlance, banned because someone somewhere didn't think it "nice" or "right".

If you still can't see it here are some examples to think about, growing up if you did something stupid or couldn't get a grip of a concept you'd be labelled a "Mong" short for Mongaloid = Down syndrome, in our house it's a common enough epithet for someone doing something stupid :-
I was putting tins over the veg in a shopping bag (last year !) a family member called me a mong, I just grinned the checkout girl was mortified & said "You can't say that !"

Talking in a pub with friends about getting fleeced in St.Johns Market by an Asian stall holder, I said "The P@ki ripped me off !" sharp intake of breath from a neighbouring table, followed by the tsk of liberal contempt & outrage from some stranger & the muttered comment "That's disgusting what he just said !" this from a white middle class woman & I'm sure she'd of been all sweetness & light had it happened to her ?

Camp Coffee, a syrup like substance long favoured over the years by many, because of the inherent display of white superiority the label envisaged it was classed as offensive & had to be changed to suit modern sensibilities in our modern multi-culti-politically correct society.

So where & what next ? Are we to carry on being browbeaten into acceptance or will common sense prevail at some point ? I can only hope it does & people start demanding balance in all things.