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General Chat General chat - common sense in here please. Decent serious discussions to be enjoyed by everyone! |
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07-04-2011, 03:24
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#1
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God Member
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"White" collective guilt /Time to stop apologizing
Anyone else getting as sick and tired as me about our 'elected leaders' apologizing for "our" collective guilt exploiting the poor and unwashed in other parts of the world ..... Sorry , but as far as I know none of my ancestors never owned a slave or was called Bwana or Memsahib, they were too busy working in the coal mines and textile mills, any cousins/uncles 4 or 5 generations past who served under the Kings/Queens colours in those times in foriegn parts did so legallaly under the laws of that time. So Mr Cameron don't feel the need to aplogize on my or my familys behalf .
Seems to me .. too many modern day "leaders" (small L) seem to feel we should share some form of the same collective guilt that we subjected the surviving Germans to immediatly after WW2 .
Mr. Cameron and (members of the House of Commons) if you want to kow -tow and apologize for anything the British have done in recent years , apologize for the actions of your predecessor but one, Tony Blair and his illegal war on the people of Iraq , though I think thats unlikely since you all probably sup from the same trough and sleep in the same sty.
Kind of strange don't you think that Gahdaffi is public enemy #1 worthy of RAF bombing raids ,yet Mugabe is still allowed to continue his reign of terror ,anyone remember "kith and kin" where are the British apologies for putting this guy in power, if France can sort out the Ivory Coast why can't you sort out Rhodesia/Zimbabwee
Rant over
Last edited by steeljack; 07-04-2011 at 03:26.
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07-04-2011, 09:05
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#2
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Resting in Peace
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In a state of confusion
Posts: 36,973
Liked: 715 times
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Re: "White" collective guilt /Time to stop apologizing
Totally agree SJ, you can't undo things that have been done nor can you be held responsible for things you have had no control over which happened years ago, its a nonsense, always has been always will be, like I said to a local politician just lately you can't unsay something you've said no matter what context you said it in, you can't undo the past, just make sure it doesn't happen again
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35 YEARS AND COUNTING
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07-04-2011, 10:18
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#3
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Give, give, give member
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Overlookin' ducks & geese
Posts: 32,411
Liked: 27 times
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Re: "White" collective guilt /Time to stop apologizing
I'm still waiting for an apology for the Big Bang.
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'If you're going to be a Kant, be the very best Kant there is my son.'
Johann Georg Kant, father of Immanuel Kant, philosopher.
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07-04-2011, 10:52
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#4
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Full Member
Join Date: May 2008
Location: South Australia
Posts: 167
Liked: 6 times
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Re: "White" collective guilt /Time to stop apologizing
Quote:
Originally Posted by steeljack
Anyone else getting as sick and tired as me about our 'elected leaders' apologizing for "our" collective guilt exploiting the poor and unwashed in other parts of the world ..... Sorry , but as far as I know none of my ancestors never owned a slave or was called Bwana or Memsahib, they were too busy working in the coal mines and textile mills, any cousins/uncles 4 or 5 generations past who served under the Kings/Queens colours in those times in foriegn parts did so legallaly under the laws of that time. So Mr Cameron don't feel the need to aplogize on my or my familys behalf .
Seems to me .. too many modern day "leaders" (small L) seem to feel we should share some form of the same collective guilt that we subjected the surviving Germans to immediatly after WW2 .
Mr. Cameron and (members of the House of Commons) if you want to kow -tow and apologize for anything the British have done in recent years , apologize for the actions of your predecessor but one, Tony Blair and his illegal war on the people of Iraq , though I think thats unlikely since you all probably sup from the same trough and sleep in the same sty.
Kind of strange don't you think that Gahdaffi is public enemy #1 worthy of RAF bombing raids ,yet Mugabe is still allowed to continue his reign of terror ,anyone remember "kith and kin" where are the British apologies for putting this guy in power, if France can sort out the Ivory Coast why can't you sort out Rhodesia/Zimbabwee
Rant over
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Nice Rant!
I look forward to the next episode.
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07-04-2011, 16:23
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#5
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God Member
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Kingston, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 9,290
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Re: "White" collective guilt /Time to stop apologizing
Quote:
Originally Posted by garinda
I'm still waiting for an apology for the Big Bang.
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Sorry But don't worry, according to some, the Big Crunch is on its way; so, if you are still around in a few billion years ......
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08-04-2011, 08:48
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#6
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God Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 7,359
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Re: "White" collective guilt /Time to stop apologizing
my grandad died in one of hitlers concentration camps.Should i seek an appology from germany for their dodgy workmanship that led to him falling from his watchtower ?
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All comments above are everything to do with here and therefore the resposibility of the Accrington Web website owners admins and mods.
ive just started a relationship with a blind woman !Its quite rewarding but quite challenging ! it took me ages to get her husbands voice right
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08-04-2011, 08:57
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#7
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Grand Wizard Of The Inner Clique
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Re: "White" collective guilt /Time to stop apologizing
Some of my ancestors were mistreated by the Normans after 1066, other members of my family were Normans mistreating the serfs, should I apologise to myself?
Less, (he says with a slight French accent & breathe reeking of garlic), I'm very sorry for all that my family did to my family. *
* Please note, there is no point trying to claim compensation, mixing with the peasants has destroyed what little wealth my family had!
__________________
“I am a Bear of Very Little Brain, and long words bother me.”
Winnie the Pooh
Quotes & quoting
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08-04-2011, 09:32
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#8
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Coffin Dodger.
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Re: "White" collective guilt /Time to stop apologizing
Have never understood why apologies are needed fer crap that happened donkeys years ago, sod all to do wi me!, like jaysay says making sure history aint repeated will do far more good imho.
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N.L.T.B.G.Y.D. Do not argue with an idiot, they will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.
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09-04-2011, 03:45
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#9
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Full Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: The Antipodes
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Re: "White" collective guilt /Time to stop apologizing
Entirely agree, however its not just in the UK but world wide, wish we had the "spin doctors" who put the rubbish out. We owe the Germans an apology for bombing Desden (its must have been another nation who Bombed London, Liverpool, Coventry etc). By the way if you introduce "AV" Alternative Voting the situation will get worst. We call it Preferential Voting in Australia and guess what, the minorities hold the balance of power and boy don't they use it much to the detriment of the majority. Its apathetic but who cares
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09-04-2011, 04:11
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#10
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God Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: SF/ Bay Area California
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Re: "White" collective guilt /Time to stop apologizing
Quote:
Originally Posted by keith higson
We owe the Germans an apology for bombing Desden (its must have been another nation who Bombed London, Liverpool, Coventry etc).
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Think if you check you will find out there was a "bit of a difference" between London, Livepool and especially Coventry ( a town Churchill sacrificed ), and Dresden , the war was in it's last phase , Dresden was nothing more than mass genocide on refugees ,some would/could call it a holocaust, (but only one group has 'copy-right' claims to that term ) , women and children who had moved back west from "Greater Germany" , even the British more or less acknowledged this after the war by with-holding a 'Lordship/Title ' to Bomber Harris .
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09-04-2011, 09:12
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#11
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JFT96
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: In the Sky, yeeeehawwwww
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Re: "White" collective guilt /Time to stop apologizing
And of course the Native Americans were not driven from their lands and wiped out by the settlers, the new Americans.
Say what you will about Dresden, just who was it who dropped two H Bombs on Japan?
As they say, all is fair in love and war.
Atrocities happen, there is nothing you can do about it.
__________________
"your mind will find a way to be unkind to you somehow. But all we really have is happening to us right now. Happiness is the road"
Steve Hogarth, lead singer Marillion
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09-04-2011, 09:25
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#12
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JFT96
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: In the Sky, yeeeehawwwww
Posts: 2,136
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Re: "White" collective guilt /Time to stop apologizing
According to German historians 25,000 people died in the Dresden bombings.
43,000 died in the Blitz of the Uk.
The atomic bomb on Hiroshima killed 90,000 people immediately and Nagasaki had 40,000 deaths from the bomb, plus thousands more from radiation poisoning.
As to genocide Hitler and his men sent between 11 million and 17 million to their deaths in the holocaust.
__________________
"your mind will find a way to be unkind to you somehow. But all we really have is happening to us right now. Happiness is the road"
Steve Hogarth, lead singer Marillion
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09-04-2011, 10:04
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#13
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JFT96
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: In the Sky, yeeeehawwwww
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Re: "White" collective guilt /Time to stop apologizing
Steeljack,
Quote:
Coventry ( a town Churchill sacrificed)
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Where do you have the evidence for this?
According to, Peter Calvocoressi,in his book Top Secret Ultra, said the following: "Ultra never mentioned Coventry... Churchill, so far from pondering whether to save Coventry or safeguard Ultra, was under the impression that the raid was to be on London."
He was Head of the Air Section at Bletchley Park, the place where they deciphered the Engima Machine messages under the code name of Ultra.
Also R.V Jones, who was the scientist in charge of the fight to jam the Germans radar, called the Battle of the Beams wrote in his book "Enigma signals to the X-beam stations were not broken in time," the X beams being a very accurate German targeting radar.
Thus I find it hard to understand your comment, unless it is referring to Group Captain F. W. Winterbotham's book, The Ultra Secret, in which he claimed that Ultra, the group responsible for cracking the Egnima, decoded a message saying Coventry was to be bombed and that Winston Churchill decided not to order any defensive measures for Coventry, in case the German high command realised we could crack Enigma.
Although Group Captain Winterbotham was the Special Liaison Officer in charge of delivering Ultra's output, his claim has been rejected by others involved in Ultra and historians alike.
20:20 vision is a great thing.
__________________
"your mind will find a way to be unkind to you somehow. But all we really have is happening to us right now. Happiness is the road"
Steve Hogarth, lead singer Marillion
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