who is this Daniel Hannan guy

[bullseyebarb]

Herein lies the fundamental conflict between the Cameron and Hannan wings of the Conservative party.

Cameron sees that the easiest path to victory for his party in the next election is to accept the status quo regarding the NHS and anyone who thinks otherwise is, at best, "eccentric," - as he recently dubbed Mr. Hannan.

Hannan favors ending the NHS and creating a system of private accounts. It will come as no surprise to any of you that I agree with him on this. However, Britain's NHS is the third largest employer on the face of the earth and the fact that Mr. Hannan believes that such a bureaucracy should be dismantled is a radical concept to most Brits. I continue to maintain that it is not the role of government to intervene in the free market. Government programs never work well. Mr. Hannan's point was bolstered last week when the Canadian Minister for Health announced that Canada's NHS was "imploding." These things are unsustainable, even with rationing.

We in the U.S. are fighting hard to defeat such a proposal here. The majority of Americans are opposed and are challenging their representatives at every turn. Most of us still value freedom, I am happy to say.

[cashman]

Originally Posted by bullseyebarb

. Most of us still value freedom, I am happy to say.

so long as they are white.

[garinda]

Originally Posted by bullseyebarb

I continue to maintain that it is not the role of government to intervene in the free market. Government programs never work well.

So as well as having a purely private health care system, for those who can presumably afford it, I assume you also don't believe there should be any state run education, and that all children's education should all be provided by private comanies, in the commercial free market place, again for those lucky enough to be able to afford it?

Thank goodness I don't live on your planet.

[garinda]

'David Cameron's claim that the NHS is safe in Tory hands has been hit by a poll showing most of his MPs say it has no future in its current form.'

'The survey of 150 MPs revealed that two thirds of Conservatives want tax breaks for patients who go private and firms to take over the running of failing hospitals.'

'It comes just days after the Tory leader was forced to distance himself from Euro MP Daniel Hannan who branded the NHS "a 60-year mistake" on American TV.'

David Cameron's NHS 'safe' claim hit by lack of support from Tory MPs - mirror.co.uk

I suppose next it'll come to light that most Conservative MPs don't really agree with hugging a hoodie, as their leader, 'Dave', told us we should do.

[garinda]

Originally Posted by cashman

so long as they are white.

You've been warned before, you liberal thinking, pinko lovin', commie red arse.



Still at least the rest of us can save on our free market fuel bills, whist we warm ourselves, and watch you burn.

[andrewb]

It's obvious our NHS can be improved. New polling suggests people don't trust Labour as the party to do that. Probably because the party that formerly claimed to be 'progressive' has jumped and screamed when anybody has suggested reform to a service established in 1948. Not a sensible response to genuine problems within the NHS that need addressing.

[garinda]

Originally Posted by andrewb

screamed

That'll be the screams of the long term ill, such as cancer sufferers, diabetics, patients with chronic asthma etc., who no private health insurance firm will touch, and are no longer able to access the medical care they need.

Or so it seems will be the case if the majority of Conservative MPs get their way, despite the platitudes of their present leader.

[claytonender]

Originally Posted by bullseyebarb

Herein lies the fundamental conflict between the Cameron and Hannan wings of the Conservative party.

Cameron sees that the easiest path to victory for his party in the next election is to accept the status quo regarding the NHS and anyone who thinks otherwise is, at best, "eccentric," - as he recently dubbed Mr. Hannan.

Hannan favors ending the NHS and creating a system of private accounts. It will come as no surprise to any of you that I agree with him on this. However, Britain's NHS is the third largest employer on the face of the earth and the fact that Mr. Hannan believes that such a bureaucracy should be dismantled is a radical concept to most Brits. I continue to maintain that it is not the role of government to intervene in the free market. Government programs never work well. Mr. Hannan's point was bolstered last week when the Canadian Minister for Health announced that Canada's NHS was "imploding." These things are unsustainable, even with rationing.

We in the U.S. are fighting hard to defeat such a proposal here. The majority of Americans are opposed and are challenging their representatives at every turn. Most of us still value freedom, I am happy to say.

What you fail to take account of is that for many people the price of private healthcare would be completely unaffordable. If you have any kind of serious medical problem the premiums would be 'sky high'. Some people are unfortunate enough to have long term medical problems which will require medication throughout the rest of their lives.

Also you do not mention the millions of your fellow countrymen who do not have any healthcare, because their income does not allow them to pay.

[garinda]

Originally Posted by claytonender

What you fail to take account of is that for many people the price of private healthcare would be completely unaffordable. If you have any kind of serious medical problem the premiums would be 'sky high'. Some people are unfortunate enough to have long term medical problems which will require medication throughout the rest of their lives.

Also you do not mention the millions of your fellow countrymen who do not have any healthcare, because their income does not allow them to pay.

'Why then Missy red drawers, we'll do what we do to our nags who're lame.'

'Shoot 'em!'

'Saves on payin' any of them doggone fancy vet fees.'

'Now scoot off our God damn land, before I put a bullet in your commie breeches!'

[andrewb]

Originally Posted by garinda

That'll be the screams of the long term ill, such as cancer sufferers, diabetics, patients with chronic asthma etc., who no private health insurance firm will touch, and are no longer able to access the medical care they need.

Or so it seems will be the case if the majority of Conservative MPs get their way, despite the platitudes of their present leader.

Pretending that the poll is tantamount to them wanting an entirely private system identical to the US is really clutching at straws.

[garinda]

Originally Posted by andrewb

Pretending that the poll is tantamount to them wanting an entirely private system identical to the US is really clutching at straws.

'It could hardly be more embarrassing for David Cameron that two-thirds of his MPs are said to oppose his plan to spare the Health Service from cuts.'

'Yet a poll suggests only 29 per cent of his party's MPs support his guarantee, while 62 per cent oppose it.'

Come clean on NHS, Mr Cameron | Mail Online

Even the Daily Mail's reporting that Cameron is out of touch with what the majority of Conservative MPs really want to do to the NHS.

[andrewb]

Originally Posted by garinda

'It could hardly be more embarrassing for David Cameron that two-thirds of his MPs are said to oppose his plan to spare the Health Service from cuts.'

'Yet a poll suggests only 29 per cent of his party's MPs support his guarantee, while 62 per cent oppose it.'

Come clean on NHS, Mr Cameron | Mail Online

Even the Daily Mail's reporting that Cameron is out of touch with what the majority of Conservative MPs really want to do to the NHS.

Like I say.. you're clutching at straws considering the Labour party haven't even ring fenced NHS spending. Of course some Tory MP's want more private sector involvement - as Labour have introduced over the past 12 years too. A 60 year old service does need some reforms. They still however believe in a free at point of use national health service where everybody is treated regardless of wealth. Do find me a poll that says otherwise.

[garinda]

Originally Posted by andrewb

Like I say.. you're clutching at straws considering the Labour party haven't even ring fenced NHS spending. Of course some Tory MP's want more private sector involvement - as Labour have introduced over the past 12 years too. A 60 year old service does need some reforms. They still however believe in a free at point of use national health service where everybody is treated regardless of wealth. Do find me a poll that says otherwise.

No straws being clutched, just commenting on reports in the press that what Cameron says, and what the majority of Conservative MPs want, seems to be poles apart.

[steeljack]

headlines like this and other similar stories on US news website links don't help the NHS project the image of quality service
The babies born in hospital corridors: Bed shortage forces 4,000 mothers to give birth in lifts, offices and hospital toilets | Mail Online

what were the reasons for closing down places like Rough Lee and Bamleymead (sp?) seems they and other maternity homes served the country well

[cashman]

Originally Posted by andrewb

Pretending that the poll is tantamount to them wanting an entirely private system identical to the US is really clutching at straws.

only person clutching at straws is you dear boy.understandable given yer belief.