who is this Daniel Hannan guy - Page 5

garinda · 27-08-2009, 01:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mancie

I would make an attempt Garinda.. but public transport is such an effort these days under Mayor Boris!

Get on your bike.

Most have railings outside.

Some people fall so easily at the first hurdle.

Eric · 27-08-2009, 02:54

Even though they are in a minority, our tories, who come from populist western roots with the Reform Party, sometimes try their right-wing little tricks ... some things they can't get away with: like re-opening the debate on gay marriage and attempting to insinuate the private sector into public health care. But some things they can do, and are doing, because they tap into the darker aspects of Canadian public opinion. The attitude to immigrants is becoming noticably harsher ... not you white English speaking guys, but muslims and poor people of colour. They can do this because there is a strong current of anger against Islam, approaching Islamophobia in some, which grows in direct proportion to the rising casualty lists from Afghanistan. Ironically, considering that all of us here, apart from the First Nations, are immigrants, there is a growing feeling of isolationism, not quite a "Canada First" movement ... but gettin' there.

I think what I'm trying to hint at in this ramble is that tories can't be trusted. They will screw over the little guy, so that the rich can line their pockets even more. For most of the population, tory times are tough times. When you guys go to the polls and elect the tories, they will gut the NHS; and they will rip great big holes in the social safety net. "This Daniel Hannan guy" is what lies behind the smiling mask ...

Mancie · 27-08-2009, 03:16

They..(the Tories) almost ripped the arse out of the NHS and any basic social welfare in the 80's but even over 18yrs in power did not achieve the aim of Thatcher,Tebbit,Clarke, and Lamont whose policiy was to turn us into a nation of greedy thieving bastards.. or failing that be a street corner begger to gain income..the Tory proclamation was income is everything.

Eric · 27-08-2009, 03:33

One question I think I asked before, in another thread, is: why are you guys heading for the far right in response to the economic crisis, when, over here in Canada and the US, voting trends seem to be heading towards the center, even a little bit left of center?

Mancie · 27-08-2009, 03:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric

One question I think I asked before, in another thread, is: why are you guys heading for the far right in response to the economic crisis, when, over here in Canada and the US, voting trends seem to be heading towards the center, even a little bit left of center?

There is no leading to the far right here ... but there is a leading to the Tories because of the economic situation .. here... and in any democratic nation the people vote for whoever is in favour with the daily mail or the sun.. newspapers that control the voting habits of Great Britain..any other view is quickly hit on by the Tories on here..but as one member stated they are really only a few..and even they are not very good.

Mancie · 27-08-2009, 04:01

And I will add that most of the die-hard Tories on here would play along with any policy thier leaders had.. even if you kicked em up from the library all the way up stanhill lane.. they are thick.

Eric · 27-08-2009, 04:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mancie

There is no leading to the far right here ... but there is a leading to the Tories because of the economic situation .. here... and in any democratic nation the people vote for whoever is in favour with the daily mail or the sun.. newspapers that control the voting habits of Great Britain..any other view is quickly hit on by the Tories on here..but as one member stated they are really only a few..and even they are not very good.

I dunno ... your tories seem pretty extereme ... think I'll stick with my "far right" comment ...

garinda · 27-08-2009, 08:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric

One question I think I asked before, in another thread, is: why are you guys heading for the far right in response to the economic crisis, when, over here in Canada and the US, voting trends seem to be heading towards the center, even a little bit left of center?

Mancie's right.

At least on the surface the Conservatives aren't portraying themselves as being on the politically far right.

Just as New Labour dropped every policy that could be seen as 'socialist' in 1997, in order to appeal to middle England, and thus ensure a victory, the Tories have done the same thing, but towards the centre left.

In theory they are supposed to be caring and sharing, and embracing of all.

Buy scratch beneath the surface a little....

and you find the majority of their MPs don't think the same was as their liberally promoted leader.

Wynonie Harris · 27-08-2009, 08:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by garinda

Just as New Labour dropped every policy that could be seen as 'socialist' in 1997, in order to appeal to middle England, and thus ensure a victory, the Tories have done the same thing, but towards the centre left.

In theory they are supposed to be caring and sharing, and embracing of all.

Buy scratch beneath the surface a little....

and you find the majority of their MPs don't think the same was as their liberally promoted leader.

Been telling AndrewB that for years, going back to the days when he still a cyfr, but he won't have it!

andrewb · 27-08-2009, 08:56

In many ways Cameron is more radical than Thatcher. The Conservative party are a broad community, many different views, I have my own some of which differ strongly with the leadership. We have many MP's that don't just follow the leader, it's good that we can have debate within a party. Basing things on current Tory MP's is fruitless, it'll be a completely different makeup after the next general election, whoever wins.

Unfortunately for Labour they've picked the one policy that nearly everyone in the Tory party is agreed on. The one policy where Cameron had no resistance from the party in his changes. A national health service that offers health to all not just those that can afford it.

Mancie · 27-08-2009, 09:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by andrewb

Unfortunately for Labour they've picked the one policy that nearly everyone in the Tory party is agreed on. The one policy where Cameron had no resistance from the party in his changes. A national health service that offers health to all not just those that can afford it.

nearly everyone in the tory party is in agreement with a national health service

..nearly?..and what will you or any other up and coming William Hague stand in do about the minority in your party that are not in favour of the NHS?.. nothing.. because they are the top brass that will call the shots when Cameron gets in.

andrewb · 27-08-2009, 09:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mancie

nearly everyone in the tory party is in agreement with a national health service

..nearly?..and what will you or any other up and coming William Hague stand in do about the minority in your party that are not in favour of the NHS?.. nothing.. because they are the top brass that will call the shots when Cameron gets in.

Mancie there are minorities in all parties. It's good to have debate within a party. You shouldn't get your knickers in a twist creating dividing lines which do not exist - the NHS is safe with the Conservatives.

garinda · 27-08-2009, 10:03

'Tory sources said that Mr Hannan would not be disciplined over his latest remarks.'

"When another Tory candidate praised Enoch Powell in 2007, David Cameron criticised him and he was forced to resign.

Daniel Hannan risks angering David Cameron by praising Enoch Powell - Telegraph

There's nothing like strong leadership...and this is nothing like strong leadership. More like someone so desparate for power he'd stop at nothing to achieve it.

Wynonie Harris · 27-08-2009, 10:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by andrewb

the NHS is safe with the Conservatives.

"The war will be over by Christmas."
"The pound in your pocket has not been devalued."
"a woman rang to say there's a hurricane on the way...don't worry, there isn't."

Oh sure...

garinda · 27-08-2009, 10:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wynonie Harris

"The war will be over by Christmas."
"The pound in your pocket has not been devalued."
"a woman rang to say there's a hurricane on the way...don't worry, there isn't."

Oh sure...

'Two-thirds of Tory backbenchers oppose his (Cameron's) plan to exempt healthcare from any spending cuts that an incoming Conservative Government would make.'

Tory MPs revolt over Cameron's NHS plans - UK Politics, UK - The Independent

....scratch beneath the surface and reality rears it's ugly head, despite what Cameron says.