who owns what?

[DtheP47]

Originally Posted by MargaretR

Have you ever considered that what you have reported could be propaganda to justify surveillance.

Government agencies are (and likely have been) capable of arranging 'terror' incidents when it suits their agenda.

Key word there for me Margaret "justify"
Nowt wrong with that.

[DtheP47]

Originally Posted by cashman

Was it not also that department told us about "Saddams" WMD.?

Yes Ol.... subsequently confirmed by Wikileaks too.
Granted The WMD diehards* will likely find some comfort in these WikiLeaked documents.
Skeptics will note that these relatively small WMD stockpiles were hardly the kind of grave danger that the Bush administration presented in the run-up to the war.

*include me in on that

[cashman]

Originally Posted by DtheP47

Key word there for me Margaret "justify"
Nowt wrong with that.

Key question aint there though. Can This department be trusted to tell the truth?

[DtheP47]

Originally Posted by cashman

Key question aint there though. Can This department be trusted to tell the truth?

see post #107

[cashman]

Originally Posted by DtheP47

Yes Ol.... subsequently confirmed by Wikileaks too.
Granted The WMD diehards* will likely find some comfort in these WikiLeaked documents.
Skeptics will note that these relatively small WMD stockpiles were hardly the kind of grave danger that the Bush administration presented in the run-up to the war.

*include me in on that

missed this we posted virtually same time, I have personally always been skeptical of anything the yanks tell us,not that ours are owt to write home about, Its all to do wi Power @ money simple as.

[MargaretR]

Governments can be super devious and devise the leaking of info by whistleblowers directed to do so. When this happens it is very difficult to comprehend why, but eventually you can see the reasons ...after time.

So there is no good reason to be convinced by anything you are told - by governments and 'whistleblowers' both.

One decision I have arrived at is -
All governments lie to and deceive their populations. When they want to restrict your civil liberties they need to convince you it is neccessary so that you will complacently accept the restrictions. Their biggest fear is revolution and rioting - gaining your approval by propaganda is easier/less expensive.

[DtheP47]

Originally Posted by cashman

missed this we posted virtually same time, I have personally always been skeptical of anything the yanks tell us,not that ours are owt to write home about, Its all to do wi Power @ money simple as.

Not gonna argue or try to deconstruct what you say Mr C but and Margaret also take please note. It's all about balance, give me a government that is counter balanced by an opposition party. Give me a free press (whatever that entails). Give me the right to free speech. Put it all in a bag and shake it up and good, bad, ugly and downright indifferent some of the time. It does for me.

[MargaretR]

Originally Posted by DtheP47

Not gonna argue or try to deconstruct what you say Mr C but and Margaret also take please note. It's all about balance, give me a government that is counter balanced by an opposition party. Give me a free press (whatever that entails). Give me the right to free speech. Put it all in a bag and shake it up and good, bad, ugly and downright indifferent some of the time. It does for me.

I think that you are politically naive to think that an 'opposition party' offers more than a false display of opposition - they all follow the same agenda directed by banking cartels and multinational corporations. How they go about it varies slightly but the results are the same.

'Free press' is another naive concept which the internet has exposed - the reason why internet monitoring and curbs are proposed.

The truth would endanger the control they excercise over your opinions and lifestyle.

'They' sometimes 'own up' to malpractice in government in order to (falsely) reassure you that your government acts in your interests - it doesn't.

[DtheP47]

Originally Posted by MargaretR

I think that you are politically naive to think that an 'opposition party' offers more than a false display of opposition - they all follow the same agenda directed by banking cartels and multinational corporations. How they go about it varies slightly but the results are the same.

'Free press' is another naive concept which the internet has exposed - the reason why internet monitoring and curbs are proposed.

The truth would endanger the control they excercise over your opinions and lifestyle.

'They' sometimes 'own up' to malpractice in government in order to (falsely) reassure you that your government acts in your interests - it doesn't.

Bit of a Wiki-wander bit wordy but here we go:
The notion of freedom of expression is intimately linked to political debate and the concepts of democracy. Free speech, Free Press, et al’
Research undertaken by the Worldwide Governance Indicators project at the World Bank, indicates that freedom of speech, and the process of accountability that follows it, have a significant impact in the quality of governance of a country. "Voice and Accountability" within a country, defined as "the extent to which a country's citizens are able to participate in selecting their government, as well as freedom of expression, freedom of association, and free media" is one of the six dimensions of governance that the Worldwide Governance Indicators measure for more than 200 countries
In Evelyn Beatrice Hall's biography of Voltaire, she coined the following phrase to illustrate Voltaire's beliefs: "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." Hall's quote is frequently cited to describe the principle of freedom of speech.
I am sure our Wizard of the Inner Clique has paraphrased that on here too in the past.Not that that will affect the price of fish

[Less]

Oh dear, do you mean me?
Have I become your target once more?

Gosh, how proud I aught to feel.

Just to make one thing clear, I won't defend your right, if you can jump from one conclusion to another you don't need my help, you cock it up on your own.

[Less]

Originally Posted by Less

Oh dear, do you mean me?
Have I become your target once more?

Gosh, how proud I aught to feel.

Just to make one thing clear, I won't defend your right, if you can jump from one conclusion to another you don't need my help, you cock it up on your own.

Notice something?

I use far less sentences to get my point across!

[MargaretR]

Originally Posted by DtheP47

Research undertaken by the Worldwide Governance Indicators project at the World Bank,

Really!! - it is in their interests to convince you that what they 'find' is true.

Nowadays if you trust any bank you need your head looking at.

[DtheP47]

Originally Posted by Less

Oh dear, do you mean me?
Have I become your target once more?

Gosh, how proud I aught to feel.

Just to make one thing clear, I won't defend your right, if you can jump from one conclusion to another you don't need my help, you cock it up on your own.

Give over Less "Target you once more?"
Wouldn't dream of it.
In fact I don't