Why Are We Here?

[Neil]

Originally Posted by HopeRules

Why not ask how a loving father God could send his perfect son to die a horrible death. It's cause he does love us so much.

You don't have to be a Vulcan to know that is not logical.

[garinda]

Originally Posted by Neil

You don't have to be a Vulcan to know that is not logical.

Blind belief conquers logic.

[Neil]

They can't all be blind or else they could not read the good Book and interpret in their own wierd and wonderful ways.

[garinda]

Originally Posted by Neil

They can't all be blind or else they could not read the good Book and interpret in their own wierd and wonderful ways.

Susprisingly I wasn't being disrespectful of anyone's religious beliefs. The whole concept of faith means you believe the basic tenets of what you are told.

[Neil]

A lot of the brain washing is the fault of faith schools. Children believe what they are told in school, even if it can't be proven. That is why my little boy tells me that "God is all around us". I just had a look, the only living thing i can see is a ginger pussy cat.

[garinda]

Originally Posted by Neil

A lot of the brain washing is the fault of faith schools. Children believe what they are told in school, even if it can't be proven. That is why my little boy tells me that "God is all around us". I just had a look, the only living thing i can see is a ginger pussy cat.

I went to a Christian, but not a particular faith school, and attended church and Sunday School every week from birth until sixteen. I'm glad that I did. A lot of the kind and giving people I met influenced who I am today, but then again I equate true Christianity with Socialism!

Religion has caused innumerable deaths in the name of it throughout history, but on the plus side has given us some wonderful architecture, art and music.

[WillowTheWhisp]

The AccyWeb gremlin won't let me post my response

[WillowTheWhisp]

Originally Posted by garinda

I equate true Christianity with Socialism!

Crikey! I thought I was the only one who did that.

There's this thing our church refers to as The Law of Consecration which is a sort of idealised way of life where all do as much as they are capapble of doing and none take more than they need and share their excess with those who do not have enough or are not physically capable of earning their own living. Needless to say it hasn't come about yet but it was tried at one time. We're probably just not ready for it yet but I think if done with no selfish aims or feelings then it would be an ideal way of life.

I wasn't educated in a faith school. I was sent to Sunday school by my parents when I was very young but I rebelled against that one Sunday because they never went to church. What I really wanted was for us all to go like I saw my friend's family doing every Sunday. I really envied them that bit of family together time. We just never seemed to do anything much as a family. Anyway one Sunday I was complaining about being packed off to Cambridge Street Methodists after we'd moved to Accy because I didn't know anybody there and they didn't exactly make me feel welcome (the other kids I mean) so my Dad said "You can either go to church or go to bed!" It was mid afternoon but I chose to go to bed. That was the last time the subject was brought up. I was about 5 or 6 years old.

At school we had an RE teacher who referred to "Genesis myths" and cast doubt on the virgin birth and performance of miracles so I certainly didn't have a Christian upbringing. She did encourage us to investigate different churches first hand and I went to quite a few different denominations but none meant anything to me.

I didn't attend church again until I was working with a girl who went to Cannon St Baptists. I remember being in the bathroom getting something out of the airing cupboard and saying something into the void along the lines of "OK, let's suppose there is a God and if you're there and I pray to you what's that all bout then?" and from that very vague start I ended up teaching in the Sunday School at Cannon Street!

My mother was half Baptist but had never attended church so I suppose there was a bit of Baptist in me but it vied with a bit of Catholic too - both of which had arguments for who was right and who was wrong. At one stage I was teaching in the Baptist SS in the morning and attending Catholic Mass in the evening! And the curiosity about other churches that had started when I was at school investigating all and sundry continued until the day I came across a colleague who was LDS and I'd never come across them before.

I asked him oodles of questions and borrowed books to read, went along to a few church meetings, read more, got interested in their choir, read more,talked to their missionaries who at the time I thought must have been brainwashed and indoctrinated so I can understand where people are coming from who think that way, read more. Eventually I was at the point where I wished I knew what I did believe.

It took a little while for it to dawn on me that I did have my own beliefs and that the only place which fitted in with that was the LDS church. There's a little more to it than that but I don 't want this to come across like me preaching. It's just meant to be an explanation of why I don't think faith schools are responsible for how people end up, well not in my case anyway or I should have ended up a total atheist.

I've been LDS (otherwise known as Mormon) for years now and although I'm still interested and curious about other people's beliefs and respect them all I doubt I could be converted to anything else.

[garinda]

That makes me really sad, that you didn't feel welcomed as a child at Cambridge Street. You would have certainly got a warm welcome at Rhydding's Methodist Church and Sunday School.

It was the same Church my parents went to, and before the amalgamation of various other Methodist Chapels, my grandparents and great grandparents before that as well. However children whose parents didn't attend with them were made to feel just as much part of the Church family.

[WillowTheWhisp]

I think it was other children doing the "where's your Mummy and Daddy then?" bit and they all had their little cliques of friends. I had no trouble settling in at Peel Park. I'd hated Hapton Council school.

[HopeRules]

Originally Posted by garinda

Oh dear Peter, I'm sorry you feel bullied.

It's just a cross some of us have to bear.

I'm sure your Lord Jesus, who also bore his cross, will give you comfort, as well as the personal messages.

Blimey mate, it wasn't me feeling bullied, I was thinking of the hundreds of viewers who may be too intimidated to post. I could debate you for a long while but what would that accomplish? Remember, I was like all the doubters, I had all the answers, I knew the unanswerable questions, I knew the bible was myth and intimidation, I've read the philosophers, etc.

I find it amusing garinda that of all your impressive knowledge, I'm being sincere, you know more about the bible then I do. I'm still reading and learning and asking many of the same questions like you and your mates.

Enjoy this glorious English day. Be back to the trenches for me.

Peter

[WillowTheWhisp]

Originally Posted by JohnW

Well, some of us already have joined in Willow. I have, and Garinda has, both of us 'non-believers' by the tone of our posts.

I was hoping for something more from people along the lines of what they do believe in rather than what they don't believe in but it seems we've either got Christians or people who just believe we die and that's the end of it - nowt, zilch, nothing. Surely there are some Accywebbers who believe we're decended from aliens or who ar pagans or something else? It would be interesting to hear some other specific beliefs.

You know what they say, If you talk to God you are praying, if God talks to you you're a crazy person!

That's probably why people keep a lot of it to themselves for fear of being thought nutcases.

We read stories in the Bible which, applied to to-day's world seem absolutely ridiculous. You know, Abraham takes his young son up the mountain to kill him because God told him to. He has him tied and bound and the arm with the knife is raised on high ready for the kill, when God stops him. I wonder how the kid felt about that. Did it change his idea that his father loved him do you think, deep down inside? If I took my son to the mountain today and tied him up, and had the knife raised and somebody saw it happen. Do you think they would accept that God was telling me to do all this? Would that make it OK? I don't think so, I'd be in the slammer in no time and quite rightly so. But we're supposed to read that in the Bible and think it's a great story and what a wonderful man Abraham was because he was willing to kill his son because God told him to do so............?

I think it's probably a feature of the times we live in as opposed to those times then. I don't believe God would ask anyone to do anything like that now. It was appropriate then to test the man's faith. He had a big job ahead of him.

There are many other stories which don't make any sense, far too numerous to list here, I'm sure you know as many, if not more than I do.

Well, they do all make sense to me so I'm not sure which you mean. Maybe like my old RE teacher you don't believe in miracles. I could never undestand how someone can be an RE teacher when they don't believe in something. Mind you these days it's not quite the same sybject it used to be.

Originally Posted by HopeRules

One last thought. If what I believe is true when we all die we will all face judgement the question being only what did you do with my son Jesus. Did you believe or not? Those not believing will entering into eternal torment by their own choice.

If it's true I'm safe, if this is just some grand brainwashing I'm under and we all rot or all good ones get in. I'm safe.

That's something I oftn say to people too.

[WillowTheWhisp]

Originally Posted by JohnW

Well, some of us already have joined in Willow. I have, and Garinda has, both of us 'non-believers' by the tone of our posts.

I was hoping for something more from people along the lines of what they do believe in rather than what they don't believe in but it seems we've either got Christians or people who just believe we die and that's the end of it - nowt, zilch, nothing. Surely there are some Accywebbers who believe we're decended from aliens or who ar pagans or something else? It would be interesting to hear some other specific beliefs.

You know what they say, If you talk to God you are praying, if God talks to you you're a crazy person!

That's probably why people keep a lot of it to themselves for fear of being thought nutcases.

We read stories in the Bible which, applied to to-day's world seem absolutely ridiculous. You know, Abraham takes his young son up the mountain to kill him because God told him to. He has him tied and bound and the arm with the knife is raised on high ready for the kill, when God stops him. I wonder how the kid felt about that. Did it change his idea that his father loved him do you think, deep down inside? If I took my son to the mountain today and tied him up, and had the knife raised and somebody saw it happen. Do you think they would accept that God was telling me to do all this? Would that make it OK? I don't think so, I'd be in the slammer in no time and quite rightly so. But we're supposed to read that in the Bible and think it's a great story and what a wonderful man Abraham was because he was willing to kill his son because God told him to do so............?

I think it's probably a feature of the times we live in as opposed to those times then. I don't believe God would ask anyone to do anything like that now. It was appropriate then to test the man's faith. He had a big job ahead of him.

There are many other stories which don't make any sense, far too numerous to list here, I'm sure you know as many, if not more than I do.

Well, they do all make sense to me so I'm not sure which you mean. Maybe like my old RE teacher you don't believe in miracles. I could never undestand how someone can be an RE teacher when they don't believe in something. Mind you these days it's not quite the same sybject it used to be.

Originally Posted by HopeRules

One last thought. If what I believe is true when we all die we will all face judgement the question being only what did you do with my son Jesus. Did you believe or not? Those not believing will entering into eternal torment by their own choice.

If it's true I'm safe, if this is just some grand brainwashing I'm under and we all rot or all good ones get in. I'm safe.

That's something I oftn say to people too.

[garinda]

Originally Posted by HopeRules

Blimey mate, it wasn't me feeling bullied, I was thinking of the hundreds of viewers who may be too intimidated to post. I could debate you for a long while but what would that accomplish? Remember, I was like all the doubters, I had all the answers, I knew the unanswerable questions, I knew the bible was myth and intimidation, I've read the philosophers, etc.

I find it amusing garinda that of all your impressive knowledge, I'm being sincere, you know more about the bible then I do. I'm still reading and learning and asking many of the same questions like you and your mates.

Enjoy this glorious English day. Be back to the trenches for me.

Peter

Misunderstanding on my behalf then, sorry.

Good to have you on board.

[HopeRules]

Hello Mates! Nice to see Accyweb up and running again. I submitted the following as we were switched out of the other site. It was in response to "vindicator's" thread "tories and Iraq/afganistan." I think "he" had about 15 points. My response is not as important as my questions at the end!

Quote from vindicator on Today at 05:13:38:


(3) do me a favour and do some groundwork instead of
relying on the media to indoctrinate you,

(5) sometime not far off, a new "messiah" will be hawked
to the world , and will be pretty convincing among the
goys.

(7) passing on facts doesnt constitute ranting or prove
any mental abnomality of the messenger, the negativity
of the response so far indicates that you will never take
your blinkers off until its too late.

Happy Saturday, I'll show a bit of support for the above bits of your statements vindicator. So you didn't believe all thought all "rubbish."

Allow me a question Accywebbers esp., Garinda, Neil, Jambutty, etc. In my threads on my Christian views, did I come across like vindicator has? (nothing against vin, he is also intitilled) I have found that it can be hard to balance sharing your beliefs without totally turning people off. I'm still new with my Faith and would very much appreciate your responses. Yes, both for and against.

Peter