Why do Farmers get massive benefits?

[Mancie]

Some talk today about the CAP.. the policy that pays farmers a wage no matter what they produce..to my mind this is a benefit and can't see why it should not be classed as such...some landowners recieve millions from this government for doing nowt else than keeping fields free of crops..and we wonder were all the money has gone.

[Margaret Pilkington]

How can it be classed as a benefit when the farmers are working?
Land does not maintain itself. The money they get comes from the EU.
(OK, so we pay into the EU........so I guess we are paying for it in a round about way)
The Common Agricultural Policy was dreamed up by the Brussels bureaucrats to make sure the market wasn't flooded with .goods that wouldn't sell.

[Eric]

That farmers need subsides is no shock. Governments in the Western World have a decided interest in keeping the price of food reasonable ... by that I don't mean "cheap" but low enough to stop food riots Most of the cost of what you eat has to do with something other than farming: processing, transportation, packaging, storage etc., but you no doubt get the picture. The farmer gets a comparatively low price for his product. It would be interesting to find out, for example, what percentage of the price of a loaf of bread goes to the guy who busts his ass growing wheat. This is the guy who has to make significant capital investment. For example, a decent combine over here will go for about $150,000. The farmer can depreciate the capital expense over, say, 15 years on his income tax, but is is still a significant outlay in a business that exists at the whim of, well, God ... or whoever it that controls the weather. And if the farmer, particularly the "little guy", goes bust, the alternative "Agribusiness" is very unattractive as an option. In Saskatchewan, one of the world's biggest producers of wheat, the folks will tell you that there have been only two good years for farmers: 1929 and "next year".

[Margaret Pilkington]

The common Agricultural Policy was first instituted by the Treaty of Rome in 1957(long before we were ever members of the EU....and while the organisation was still called the Common Market...and while the Common Market was purely about trade).
It was implemented in 1962.
Something in the region of 48% of the EU budget is doled out in subsidies to farmers of the EU.

There have been attempts over the years to reform the CAP, but with not much in the way of success, and certainly not much reduction to the EU budget.
The main critics of the CAP cite the fact that is seen as a way of protecting European Agriculture from overseas competition(we are overseas competition even though we are members of the EU) even though farming actually contributes very little to the GDP of the EU.

I hope I have got that right..if I haven't I am sure there will be someone along soon to correct me.

[Gobbiner17]

If people cared about themselves more they would eat better food and there would be more demand for fruit and veg instead of processed food. A field that grows vegetables produces 10 times the protein of a field used for beef cattle. Of the plant protein used to raise beef cattle only a tenth of it is used. If this plant protein was used to feed humans there'd be no starvation.

OK, you may argue forever about the choices, variations, economy and whatever, but where there's a will there's a way and if the EU wanted to do something that benefitted the average person, they could do it.

[Margaret Pilkington]

Originally Posted by Gobbiner17

If people cared about themselves more they would eat better food and there would be more demand for fruit and veg instead of processed food. A field that grows vegetables produces 10 times the protein of a field used for beef cattle. Of the plant protein used to raise beef cattle only a tenth of it is used. If this plant protein was used to feed humans there'd be no starvation.

OK, you may argue forever about the choices, variations, economy and whatever, but where there's a will there's a way and if the EU wanted to do something that benefitted the average person, they could do it.

I think this is a very simplistic way to look at things.
The problem of healthy eating is multifacetted, and needs a variety of approaches to tackle it.

Are you advocating that we all become vegetarain(or demi veg)....this would not suit many people for (again) many reasons.
We are most comfortable with the kind of food that we grew up eating.

Processed food is something that busy mothers rely on purely because it is convenient.
Lots of people grow up not seeing much cooking being done. You can't cook nourishing healthy food if this is not what you saw as you grew up. There are no cookery lessons in schools anymore.

Did you drink carbonated sugary drinks when you were growing up?
I know I didn't....it was milk, water, tea or cocoa.
I am sure that these fizzy drinks that children seem so keen on, have an impact on childhood obesity.

So although solutions may seem simple, I don't think they are(just my opinion).

[Gobbiner17]

Trying to keep it simple and just stating some facts. Vegetarianism is growing because it is healthier but I am not saying everybody should become vegetarians, it's up to them. However, if fresh fruit and veg was more available and cheaper, I bet many people would eat more of it. Convenience meals could be made healthier. The land could be used for healthier and more economical foods. All these could be supported by EU initiatives, if a healthier nation was desired. I was brought up with good simple food and it dismays me to see so many overweight kids who maybe don't even know what healthy food is. Jamie Oliver says it well in this video, and his ideas about teaching everybody to cook are great.

[cashman]

think much of this vegetarianism is bull, its all about metabolism n common sense, i eat very few veg, as people who know me will testify, most of my food come outa a chip pan or frying pan, eat loads of meat, but very rarely make a pig of meself, very rarely eat in between meals, never had a weight problem, some may say i'm a lucky sod, but i say common sense aint lucky.

[Royboy39]

Originally Posted by Mancie

Some talk today about the CAP.. the policy that pays farmers a wage no matter what they produce..to my mind this is a benefit and can't see why it should not be classed as such...some landowners recieve millions from this government for doing nowt else than keeping fields free of crops..and we wonder were all the money has gone.

I can understand where Mancie is coming from.
He is surrounded by buildings paid for by the taxpayer and enjoys higher benefits than anyone else in the country.
Green is something that Londoners crave and if anyone works for nothing in the smoke, they would be classed as loosers.
Get a spade and keep the countryside in order for nothing, Get Real.

[steeljack]

Soon as Jamie Oliver's name came up you lost me , The looney-tunes trying to take control again.

[Margaret Pilkington]

Jamie Oliver is persuasive and charismatic....and he is passionate about food. Butlike many other people he fails to see that the obesity problem isn't one that has just one cause.......it isn't about food. It is about balance. A balanced lifestyle.

I grew up just after the war we were very poor.......I'm talking really poor. No food in the house, no coal to keep us warm. Fruit came in tins and was reserved for Sunday with a splash of Carnation(if you were lucky) Oh, yes we did scrump apples from time to time

As children, we got school meals, which Ma paid for for a long time...then when my father was very ill and couldn't work we became eligible for free school meals.
Five days a week we got a good meal at lunchtime....but much of the rest of the time I wouldn't consider what we ate to be even vaguely healthy(jam and bread for tea...mixed fruit jam from the Co-op, cheapest you could buy, flavour...red).
We weren't fat.......why is that do you think? We should have been fat, our staple diet was bread and spuds....but we were not fat.

We played out, we ran around from morning til night....only going home for something to eat( a conny-onny butty).....we played whip and top, we skipped with ropes, we climbed trees, made dens, played Tig, hide and seek.
TV didn't come into our lives until 1952/3....and broadcasts were for a few hours in the evening. No computers......we led very active lives.

We didn't eat Greggs sausage rolls while walking round town we didn't have cans and cans of fizzy drinks.
What we ate was burned off in energy. Do you get the picture?

Perhaps I should have made this my blog.

[Gobbiner17]

Got the picture, but don't get me started about cars!

[Margaret Pilkington]

Ok, I won't

[Retlaw]

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

Jamie Oliver is persuasive and charismatic....and he is passionate about food. Butlike many other people he fails to see that the obesity problem isn't one that has just one cause.......it isn't about food. It is about balance. A balanced lifestyle.

I grew up just after the war we were very poor.......I'm talking really poor. No food in the house, no coal to keep us warm. Fruit came in tins and was reserved for Sunday with a splash of Carnation(if you were lucky) Oh, yes we did scrump apples from time to time

As children, we got school meals, which Ma paid for for a long time...then when my father was very ill and couldn't work we became eligible for free school meals.
Five days a week we got a good meal at lunchtime....but much of the rest of the time I wouldn't consider what we ate to be even vaguely healthy(jam and bread for tea...mixed fruit jam from the Co-op, cheapest you could buy, flavour...red).
We weren't fat.......why is that do you think? We should have been fat, our staple diet was bread and spuds....but we were not fat.

We played out, we ran around from morning til night....only going home for something to eat( a conny-onny butty).....we played whip and top, we skipped with ropes, we climbed trees, made dens, played Tig, hide and seek.
TV didn't come into our lives until 1952/3....and broadcasts were for a few hours in the evening. No computers......we led very active lives.

We didn't eat Greggs sausage rolls while walking round town we didn't have cans and cans of fizzy drinks.
What we ate was burned off in energy. Do you get the picture?

Perhaps I should have made this my blog.

Same here Margaret, only during the war we had an allotment up Sandy Lane, and I helped a chap who kept hens, I was usually paid in eggs, which mother preerved in isinglass, I also had a small truck, and went coal picking, on the spoil tip behind Broad Oak print works, even coal was rationed.
As for fruit, only apples which were usually nicked from local orchards, and whimberry, which we picked up near West Farm, only ever saw oranges at christmas, ships were to busy transporting essentials, and such things were'nt considered as such. Like you said mostly bread and spuds.
Todays youth don't know how lucky they are, entertainment was what you made youself.
Retlaw.

[Neil]

Originally Posted by Gobbiner17

Trying to keep it simple and just stating some facts. Vegetarianism is growing because it is healthier but I am not saying everybody should become vegetarians, it's up to them.

If we were not supposed to eat animals they would not be made out of food