Work for dole

[BERNADETTE]

Originally Posted by polly

Strings like these make people wonder where there money is going. I don't think anyone is having a go at anyone genuinely unable to work because of family circumstances, certainly not me as I am only one step away from it myself
Tele working would be ideal for many, including the disabled (though there should not be an pressure to force those genuinely unwell back into the workforce) The amount it would cost would be negligible compared with benefits that might be paid over a number of years.
I think many, particularly small employers would go for the idea. I know virtual PA's are always popular

That is a very poor answer to what Onlyme posted, she has worked up to being made redundant not long ago and is now struggling on very little money to support her and her child.
As for having to give up work due to family circumstances you have no idea until it happens!!!
So you are still in favour of people being made to work for dole money because it will be beneficial to small bussiness's?? Sorry that is out of order, if you are going to employ somebody pay them a proper wage!!!

[Loz]

I agree wholeheartedly Bernie.
What is the point in saying to somebody work and you will get your dole when they could be working part or full time for a proper wage.

[BERNADETTE]

The jobs just aren't there to be had!!! The problems stem from most of our major employers closing down, so the answer is to encourage business back into the area. People can't seriously be expected to work for sixty pounds a week!! Why not bring the workhouses back?? That is the way it is heading!!!

[Loz]

Surely it's better to have people working full stop?
When i started the job i have now i was only on a small wage but gradually gained more hours the longer i was there and put in the overtime.
If people are getting 60 quid a week dole then yes they should be made to work for it if this ridiculous scheme gets the go ahead.

[cashman]

they will probably get em piggybacking people from burnley to blackburn hospital, that should keep the figures down.

[steeljack]

Originally Posted by BERNADETTE

The jobs just aren't there to be had!!! The problems stem from most of our major employers closing down, so the answer is to encourage business back into the area. !!

Think you have answered your own question there , the only reason there are no manufacturing jobs is because people prefer to buy cheap Chinese made imports , Does anyone know what percentage of non-food goods ASDA/Walmart sells that are made in the UK ? maybe 5% .
How many times have there been complaints about Accrington becoming Pound shop central ( all imported tat) and the closing of high brand shops because folks don't patronize them .
How many parents spend hundreds of Pounds every Christmas on imported toys and how many would be prepared to pay a few pounds more if the Toys were British made . You cannot have it both ways , if you want decent wages you have to be prepared to pay a decent price for goods and services .

[BERNADETTE]

Originally Posted by steeljack

Think you have answered your own question there , the only reason there are no manufacturing jobs is because people prefer to buy cheap Chinese made imports , Does anyone know what percentage of non-food goods ASDA/Walmart sells that are made in the UK ? maybe 5% .
How many times have there been complaints about Accrington becoming Pound shop central ( all imported tat) and the closing of high brand shops because folks don't patronize them .
How many parents spend hundreds of Pounds every Christmas on imported toys and how many would be prepared to pay a few pounds more if the Toys were British made . You cannot have it both ways , if you want decent wages you have to be prepared to pay a decent price for goods and services .

Sorry but I disagree, the only reason there are no manufacturing jobs is because the manufacturers have gone for the cheapest supplier. Think most people would be prepared to pay that little bit more to get some jobs back locally. I for one most certainly would!!!

I don't know how long it is since you lived in these parts or if ever you did but in recent years a lot of local factories were making parts for cars. Rist Wires and TML were quite big employers and one has long gone and the other not far behind. Even Nori (trading under another name) is cutting back drastically, so no I do not accept that the consumers are at fault just the greedy manufacturers!!!

[onlyme]

Originally Posted by Loz

Surely it's better to have people working full stop?
When i started the job i have now i was only on a small wage but gradually gained more hours the longer i was there and put in the overtime.
If people are getting 60 quid a week dole then yes they should be made to work for it if this ridiculous scheme gets the go ahead.

Couple of arguments against this. Firstly housing benefit is means tested, so any wages I receive would go straight to housing benefit first, before hitting my pocket. Therefore, If I had a part time job at minimum wage, I would have to work approx 20 hours before I even touched the dole money, another 10 ish hours to repay the dole money. Out of that, I would also pay 70-80 for childcare to cover that (although working tax would pay 80%).

Bearing in mind, I have worked for the last few years with a knee condition with which I could go on disability for life (or until a series of operations that arent guarenteed to fix the problem), any extra money that I would get on disability gets knocked off housing benefit automatically so I would be no better off. Also, my disability would appear on my work record, which, although I appreciate there is meant to be no discrimination, I would prefer no to take the chance.

Also, the value of training that I have undergone over the years is huge. If I was a brain surgeon in the same circumstance, would you ask them to work in the community, or as a virtual pa for 60 quid a week? In a country where the Government complain there is a skills shortage etc, surely they should look to make it easier for those that desperately want to work in a job that they have strived for?

I find it embaressing telling people I am unemployed (And I dont mean to offend anyone here). The treatment you receive from the job centre etc is disgraceful, and is only the start of strangers who know nothing about your circumstances judging you and looking down on you. In fact, when I went for my interview with the 'Lone parent adviser' (what joy that was!), after about half an hour of her 'speaking' to me she asked for the necessary paperwork to complete the claim including my last pay slip. She looked at it, paused for a few seconds, and then apologised saying "I'm sorry, I;ve been talking to you like this, and you pay more tax than I earn a month". Its a shame people think they have the right to talk down to you whatever situation you are in, God forbid they find themselves down on their luck on day

[Less]

Originally Posted by polly

No, I just decided that a list would be wasted on someone who could not read the existing one and could not string enough words together for a couner argument.

Your quite right Polly, Benipete should take the effort to read your list.

Well Beni consider your wrists slapped and in case you didn't understand the list I have placed it below:-

• Cleaning the Queen Victoria statue on Blackburn Boulevard.
• Re-building Whitebirk Drive, no, even you’ve rejected that one.
• Cleaning Hospitals.
• Window Cleaner for public buildings.

If that is a list polly I wouldn't send you to the shops with it you'd get lost.

By the way, why did you do such a dramatic U-turn?

I preferred the other polly.

[polly]

Originally Posted by BERNADETTE

That is a very poor answer to what Onlyme posted, she has worked up to being made redundant not long ago and is now struggling on very little money to support her and her child.
As for having to give up work due to family circumstances you have no idea until it happens!!!
So you are still in favour of people being made to work for dole money because it will be beneficial to small bussiness's?? Sorry that is out of order, if you are going to employ somebody pay them a proper wage!!!

You have totally misread me. I would never advocate anyone who has genuine reasons for not working, being h assled into doing so.

The problem in this country is not people who find themselves with problems after working for x amount of years the problem is the hardcore unemployed, the wont work cant work brigade, these are the problem.

I would also suggest that you have no idea what is like to work 12 h ours a day 6 days a week and a few on Sunday to keep a famil when the other partner can not work and be constantly turned down for any help because you are working, but one gets on with it and works around family circumstances.

[polly]

Originally Posted by Less

Your quite right Polly, Benipete should take the effort to read your list.

Well Beni consider your wrists slapped and in case you didn't understand the list I have placed it below:-

• Cleaning the Queen Victoria statue on Blackburn Boulevard.
• Re-building Whitebirk Drive, no, even you’ve rejected that one.
• Cleaning Hospitals.
• Window Cleaner for public buildings.

If that is a list polly I wouldn't send you to the shops with it you'd get lost.

By the way, why did you do such a dramatic U-turn?

I preferred the other polly.

No u turn as such. My first thought were that we have enough pulic jobs to employ people on and then I though of a number of people I know who are runing small business and can not make the jump to being larger businesses. They are usually held back by lack of staff. Since Nat Min Wage was introduced it has made employing someone a major leap and for the newer businesses it is a leap into the dark, so I can see that subsidised labour would be of great help. I also believe that in small businesses employees are offered a wider range of job experiences and therfor benefit more.

In a capitalised, computerised, mechanised society we are never going to see full employment we need to think out of the box and agree that it is imoral for the working population to keep able bodied citizens (this does not include those with home responsibilities)

[Less]

Originally Posted by polly

No u turn as such. My first thought were that we have enough pulic jobs to employ people on and then I though of a number of people I know who are runing small business and can not make the jump to being larger businesses. They are usually held back by lack of staff. Since Nat Min Wage was introduced it has made employing someone a major leap and for the newer businesses it is a leap into the dark, so I can see that subsidised labour would be of great help. I also believe that in small businesses employees are offered a wider range of job experiences and therfor benefit more.

A complete U turn, no use adding as such, I now see you going from being a benevolent employer to one that wishes to take advantage of the unfortunate as well as the lazy, (the unfortunate will resent being grouped with the lazy and the lazy won't give a monkey's, they will find a way around it).

In the earlier thread you claimed to pay more because you got a better work force, created 'real' jobs and saved yourself the hassle of having to replace discontented staff.

Now you want to force people into working for struggling companies. Not all companies will be worth working for and will treat their staff accordingly.

I can also see some poor unfortunates working for bullies, being forced to work in perhaps unsafe conditions or take abuse, because if you don't do what I tell you to I will tell the dole your refusing to work and get them to stop your benefits.

[onlyme]

Ok lets look at this logically. An average family of 2 adults and 2 children. They would require a 3 bedroomed house to live, rent approx 500 ( and thats cheap). On benefits, approx 125 a week, plus approx 25 council tax, 20 gas, 20 electric, 5 water so total of 195 without food, clothing etc. lets round it up to 200 to make it easier.

A worker or minimum wage of £5.52 would have to work approx 50 hours a week to get a net income to purely cover the outgoings detailed above. This is above the national directive of 48 hours maximum. Of course, this would mean the family would be naked and starved.

Of course, one person in this family could be classed as hard core unemployed, he/she is fit and able to work. The other is excusable as they are looking after the children.

Does it make sense them going back to work? No. And the Government still wonder why we have children being fed cheap processed food, families buying cheaper foreign imports, malnutrition, problems with learning, problems with crime and so on.

Doesnt really take a genuis to work it out

[cashman]

Originally Posted by onlyme

Its a shame people think they have the right to talk down to you whatever situation you are in, God forbid they find themselves down on their luck on day

disagree, Conceit,Arrogance, Ignorance, i can accept, but Shame no.

[onlyme]

Incidentally, missed out amounts from working tax etc. Looking at the entitled to website, there COULD be an additional 160 ish weekly with child benefit for 2, housing benefit etc. Sounds great until we carry on with outgoings:

Statistics show approx 115 a week shopping for a family of four, not including clothing. So that leaves 45 a week. Travelling to work and back, lets use a basic of 1.50 each way for buses, 15 on a 5 day week.

That leaves us 30 quid purely based on essentials. And those benefits are based on the MAXIMUM that could be granted.