You Reap What You Sow

[mickmc]

Methinks it's now't to do with God !!

Science explains it all !!

Isaac Newton covered it exactly - tis a basic law of the Universe

"To every action , there is an equal and opposite reaction"

[Margaret Pilkington]

God is God and can do what he sees fit. I don't know if he has such human attributes as vengeance...though I did onec hear someone quote 'Vengeance is mine saith the Lord' so maybe...just maybe He is...or maybe we here on earth are being admonished not to let vengeance creep into our lives as it is for the Lord to decide on that policy. You take your choice Flash.

[Margaret Pilkington]

Originally Posted by mickmc

Methinks it's now't to do with God !!

Science explains it all !!

Isaac Newton covered it exactly - tis a basic law of the Universe

"To every action , there is an equal and opposite reaction"

I like that one Mickmc...especially with the signature too

[WillowTheWhisp]

Originally Posted by katex

No, Willow forgiving is sanctimonious ..

It may seem so, and maybe it feels like that when you first try to do it, in which case you kind of still haven't done it because the thought is going something like "I shall be all magnanimous and noble and forgive you, you lying thieving slimy piece of ......." which although you may have said the words means you still aren't feeling the feeling. Like the Native American thing about walking the walk and talking the talk. When you don't forgive somebody it sort of gnaws away at you and makes you feel grouchy, grumpy and lousy. It doesn't actually affect the other person at all. When you are genuinely able to forgive, that doesn't affect them either but boy it doesn't half affect you and feels like a weight being lifted if you are able to let go of the bad feelings. Do you really want to hurt yourself or the person who has hurt you? The answer is probably the latter but when you don't forgive then you're actually doing the former. I don't mean you personally Katex, I've done it myself which is why I know how it feels.

Originally Posted by Flash

Interesting point you make- is God vengeful then? And why do only certain wrongdoers meet a sticky end? Have others done some sort of deal to avoid retribution?

Sticky ends are debateable. We see ends from a mortal perspective - there's more to it than that. Vengeful? No, but certainly just. That's where the Atonement comes into play to counterbalance justice with mercy. It's we humans who tend to do vengeful.

Originally Posted by mickmc

Methinks it's now't to do with God !!

Science explains it all !!

Isaac Newton covered it exactly - tis a basic law of the Universe

"To every action , there is an equal and opposite reaction"

Yes, I agree with you there. A lot of what people see as God's vengeance or divine retribution, or even God not caring what happens to people is actually just a case of 'consequences'. It's one of those things I have to explain to my kids a lot when they think I am being mean. Somebody didn't wash up so there are no clean cups unless somebody else washes them up. But the person who should have washed up has gone swanning off with her mates - so is whoever remains being punished by having to wash up or is it a consequence of her sister's actions?

I don't half sound like I've got my Sunday School teacher head on this morning

[Flash]

[quote=WillowTheWhisp;410559]

Sticky ends are debateable. We see ends from a mortal perspective - there's more to it than that. Vengeful? No, but certainly just. That's where the Atonement comes into play to counterbalance justice with mercy. It's we humans who tend to do vengeful.



Sorry it might be me being thick but I dont understand this. Just a few questions-
1. If God is 'just' this would suggest she/he dispenses justice is that the really the case? and if so my original question stands- why isnt s/he consistent in this justice?
2. 'Counterbalancing justice with mercy'- is that for those who atone?
3. If God really does exist and s/he created the world ala Genesis- why is it flawed? San Andreas Fault, shifting plates, volcanoes etc.

[Margaret Pilkington]

Well, when you find out the answer to that one you'll have the world in the palm of your hand Flash.

My parents always taught me that I could have anything I wanted as long as i had the ability to pay(oh and the desire to pay of course).
Some things in life we pay for immediately....other things in life we may pay for long after we have forgotten about what we took......what i am trying to say (perhaps not very eloquently)is that every single action we take has consequences...some of which we can see, others we can't see......we have to be prepared in life to take the consequnces for all our actions.....the good ones and the bad ones....and ultimately live with them.

[Flash]

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

Well, when you find out the answer to that one you'll have the world in the palm of your hand Flash.

My parents always taught me that I could have anything I wanted as long as i had the ability to pay(oh and the desire to pay of course).
Some things in life we pay for immediately....other things in life we may pay for long after we have forgotten about what we took......what i am trying to say (perhaps not very eloquently)is that every single action we take has consequences...some of which we can see, others we can't see......we have to be prepared in life to take the consequnces for all our actions.....the good ones and the bad ones....and ultimately live with them.

I respect your ethos completely, might not subscribe fully myself but hats off to your parents for having a clear belief that they obviously imparted well. I am always slightly envious of people with the clarity of thought you display- respect Margaret.

[Margaret Pilkington]

Thanks Flash...don't get me wrong.....I am not perfect, but then who is?
I just have a fairly firm set of values with which to steer myself through the sometimes heavy waters.....and for that I am heartily grateful to my parents.
And it is Ok for you to not totally subscribe to my ethos...for that is what it is...mine. Everyone has to develop their own sense of being, and values to live by.

[WillowTheWhisp]

Originally Posted by Flash

Sorry it might be me being thick but I dont understand this. Just a few questions-
1. If God is 'just' this would suggest she/he dispenses justice is that the really the case? and if so my original question stands- why isnt s/he consistent in this justice?
2. 'Counterbalancing justice with mercy'- is that for those who atone?
3. If God really does exist and s/he created the world ala Genesis- why is it flawed? San Andreas Fault, shifting plates, volcanoes etc.

1. What we are actually talking about are consequences not justice. God's justice doesn't come into play until judgement day. What happens to people as a result of consequences will be inconsistent because no two situations are identical or comparable.

2. The has only ever been one who could atone and that was Jesus Christ.

3. God created a perfect world but with the fall the world became imperfect.

[Ianto.W.]

Dont ask me a mountain of questions, there is simply no answer to them all.
"So as you sow, so shall you reap". Having read all the posts to date in this thread, I thought I would just add these words my Grandmother told us, as we left home go out into the wide world.

[garinda]

It would be nice to believe in some sort of natural justice, but I've known some wicked owd beggars, who live unblemished to a ripe old age.

[Margaret Pilkington]

Now that might have been their punishment...to live a long life with a guilty conscience.

[Ianto.W.]

Originally Posted by garinda

It would be nice to believe in some sort of natural justice, but I've known some wicked owd beggars, who live unblemished to a ripe old age.

Predictable answer, but do not think old age is a disease even a perfect person can escape, all will be afflicted even you.