You will join in

[jambutty]

Originally Posted by Mancie

Hang on Jambutty are we talking about Muslims?...at no time does Enoch Powell mention "Muslims" in the speech.. he does mention "Negros" many times... "in 15-20 years time the black man will hold the whip hand over the white man".. not very well chosen words from a man you tell us was not racist!... the speech in full is here...Enoch Powell's 'Rivers of Blood' speech - Telegraph

You really should try reading what I wrote and not putting your own spin on it. But then if you did that you wouldn’t be able to have a pop at me, would you?

I never stated that Enoch Powell mentioned Muslims nor did I state that he was not a racist. Enoch Powell was referring to immigrants and their descendants and today that includes Muslims. When he made that speech there were very few Muslims in the UK.

So tell me which of the current Muslim population is not an immigrant or a descendant of an immigrant?

Mentioning “Negro” or “Negroes” FIVE TIMES in a speech of just over 3,000 words can hardly be called many times.

The link that I provided contained a link to the speech in full for anyone interested enough to read it.

[jambutty]

Just a codicil to my post - #100

Dispatches on Channel 4 at 8:00pm tonight entitled – Undercover Mosque: the Return.

As it states in the Radio Times,
“In a follow-up to last year’s controversial documentary, this film goes back under cover to see whether extremist beliefs are still being disseminated in some Muslim institutions in the UK and what role the religious establishment of Saudi Arabia is playing in spreading this hard-line ideology.”

The programme will be repeated at 11:30pm on Wednesday on More 4.

[emamum]

does anyone else groan when they see that jambutty has replied to a thread they are watching?

[Mancie]

Originally Posted by jambutty

You really should try reading what I wrote and not putting your own spin on it. But then if you did that you wouldn’t be able to have a pop at me, would you?

I never stated that Enoch Powell mentioned Muslims nor did I state that he was not a racist. Enoch Powell was referring to immigrants and their descendants and today that includes Muslims. When he made that speech there were very few Muslims in the UK.

So tell me which of the current Muslim population is not an immigrant or a descendant of an immigrant?

Mentioning “Negro” or “Negroes” FIVE TIMES in a speech of just over 3,000 words can hardly be called many times.

The link that I provided contained a link to the speech in full for anyone interested enough to read it.

Seems to me that you are the one putting your own "spin" on a speech that was at the time clearly aimed at the Black population...not Muslims as was the origin of this thread.

[jambutty]

Originally Posted by Wynonie Harris

It depends what you mean by "devout". Just because a Muslim follows his religion devoutly does not necessarily mean that he is willing to follow the edicts of the "hardliners". My Muslim mate is devoutly fasting for Ramadan, but he tells me that he regards the hardliners with nothing but contempt (although, of course, he could be lying!).

As for Enoch Powell, it's a pity he didn't think about this in the fifties when he was the Minister of Health and actively encouraging immigrants to come over here to work in the NHS. However, you're right, there are areas where the predominant population is composed of immigrants and their descendants. However, I don't see how that proves that they are planning to "take over". There's an area near me that largely comprises those of West Indian extraction - are they planning to take over, too?

I agree that their are parallels to be drawn with pre-war Germany, though - just as Hitler and the Nazis sought to use the Jews as a scapegoat for all that was wrong with the country, so many in the UK are using "immigrants" in a similar way.

Devout means devout and has only one meaning. – deeply or earnestly religious. Although it can also be applied to other areas, wrongly in my opinion – like a devout supporter of Accrington Stanley or a devout reader of a particular author’s books.

A person who is deeply religious will do whatever the leaders decree otherwise they cannot be seen as devout followers.

As I have already stated, in days long gone by Catholics would do whatever the church told them to do for fear of being excommunicated and damned to eternal hell. Islam is no different with its hold on Muslims.

I didn’t say that all Muslim communities are planning to ‘take over’. I stated that it was the hard liners with that plan and if the religious leaders said, “jump” the automatic response would be “how high?” Not, “Well I don’t agree with what you want me to do.”

The time is not right yet for the hard liners to insist on the Muslim masses to follow their ruling. They are not strong enough yet. But when it comes to Muslim matters Sharia Law is being implemented in spite of the fact that it has no legal standing in this country. But it has been muted to integrate parts of the Sharia Law into British law. Another thin end of a wedge.

I can’t help but wonder what will happen if all the 51 councillors of Tower Hamlets are Muslim? There is a majority of 31 now with only 36% of the population Muslim.

I do believe that the majority of the West Indian immigrants were Christians and as Christians they came to a Christian country.

I do not see the immigrants as the reason for the state of this country. That is down to the politicians and greedy have’s. You can hardly blame the immigrants for taking what is on offer. What you can blame the Muslim immigrants for is the cunning way that they have played the ‘race’ card and now benefit from positive discrimination.

But if people don’t want to see what is in front of them, that’s their lookout. Time will tell!

[jambutty]

Originally Posted by emamum23

does anyone else groan when they see that jambutty has replied to a thread they are watching?

Why come to this thread then? Just ignore it.

Or is it because you are hoping to find something with which you can take a childish dig at me?

Maybe it is time that there was a kiddie’s section.

[jambutty]

Originally Posted by Mancie

Seems to me that you are the one putting your own "spin" on a speech that was at the time clearly aimed at the Black population...not Muslims as was the origin of this thread.

The theme of Enoch Powell’s speech was clearly aimed at immigrants in particular, with an example of Negroes because large numbers of them were coming here. Had there been large Muslim communities you can bet your bottom dollar that they would have been mentioned by name.

[Loz]

Well all i can say is thank god i work with muslims who have a sense of humour and don't mind us eating in front of them.
And it doesn't look like we will be getting a second microwave at work!
There is one upsetting the applecart and unfortunately these days thats all it takes.
Oh well looks like bacon is off the menu!

[Tealeaf]

Originally Posted by jambutty

If you read the thread through (Post 21) you would have seen that 31 of the 51 councillors had names attributed to immigrants and if you look at each person's profile you would see that they were all Asian.

Never trust Jambutty's figures. The actual number of Asian Councillors is 33, all but one of whom is Bangladeshi or origin thereof. Six of these councillors are members of Galloway's 'Respect' party and Galloway is one of the two Borough MPs.

[Eric]

I happen to believe fairly strongly in the separation of church and state ... there are others, muslim extremists and US ultra-right born-again christians come to mind, who wish to replace the secular state with one based on their brand of religion. This struggle is taking place in Pakistan, Afghanistan (where 93 Canadian soldiers have been KIA in order to prevent it), and in Turkey. And McCain's choice of an anti-abortion running mate is an acknowledgement of this trend in the US.

[shakermaker]

Originally Posted by Eric

I happen to believe fairly strongly in the separation of church and state ... there are others, muslim extremists and US ultra-right born-again christians come to mind, who wish to replace the secular state with one based on their brand of religion. This struggle is taking place in Pakistan, Afghanistan (where 93 Canadian soldiers have been KIA in order to prevent it), and in Turkey. And McCain's choice of an anti-abortion running mate is an acknowledgement of this trend in the US.

I do hope Obama gets in. Looks like the last hope for the States. Sorry to thread wander.

[Bagpuss]

Originally Posted by emamum23

does anyone else groan when they see that jambutty has replied to a thread they are watching?

Not on the subject of muslims I don't.

Too many people either don't or won't see what is going on around them.

[BERNADETTE]

Anybody watch Dispatches?

[emamum]

Originally Posted by Bagpuss

Not on the subject of muslims I don't.

Too many people either don't or won't see what is going on around them.

unfortunately most of Jambuttys post are full of opinionated, bigoted rubbish bulked up with big words because he wants to look smart.

[Bagpuss]

Originally Posted by emamum23

unfortunately most of Jambuttys post are full of opinionated, bigoted rubbish bulked up with big words because he wants to look smart.

Jambutty's a pussy compared to the muslim extremists.