you will pray to Allah

[emamum]

Originally Posted by Tin Monkey

A lot of that is due to the fact that the 'Jehovah's Witnesses' are not a conversionist sect. When they knock on people's doors they are not trying to convert you, but to spread the 'good word' far and wide. That is the way to their salvation.

I too have had a few interesting discussions with members of that sect/denomination, but they've always ended amicably. If I don't have time to talk I tell them politely and they always leave showing no animosity.

omg tin monkey.i get worried when you say something i agree with

Just to add that if i was told to pray to Allah i would have refused... I went to Catholic school and even we were allowed to refuse to pray if we wanted.........

[Tin Monkey]

Originally Posted by WillowTheWhisp

That does surprise me. I always thought it was their aim to convert others to their faith.

A friend of mine did a Phd thesis on the Watchtower, Bible and Tract Society (Jehovah's Witnesses) and if you're suffering from insomnia, you could try reading his book to help you sleep (Only kidding mate, if you read this).

There's a system for classifying religious sects and cults devised by a bloke called Bryan Wilson and he places the Witnesses in a category called either adventist or revolutionary sects. This is because the Witnesses believe in a better world coming, after this one has crumbled (millenarian movements believe in this).

All very boring, but there you have it.

Originally Posted by emamum23

omg tin monkey.i get worried when you say something i agree with

Not half as worried as I get when you agree with me.

[Less]

Originally Posted by WillowTheWhisp

I have no authority over the missionaries so I can't instruct them to do or not to do anything.

If you tell them specifically that you do not want any missionaries ever to call at your door again then they should make a note of that and pass it on.



If you were to question our church members about how they came to be members of the church you'll find a large percentage of them will tell you it is because the missionaries called at their home one day. Those people are glad that they did.

If you don't want to know then just tell them that. No-one will ever try to force anyone to join our church. That would be pointless. It has to be because people want it.

I've had Jehovah's Witnesses call here and I have no intention of ever becoming one but we've had some very long and interesting discussions and agreed to disagree without any animosity.

So to cut through the bull, you support a Church in which you have no authority to influence their views? (normal religion so far).

If I tell them,(at first politely) not to call again, they will give me a cock and bull story of having to call again in case I have moved and someone else is here.

I do believe you all call with sincere hopes but the people you prey upon, (no spelling mistake), are the aged and the vulnerable, desperate for help and assistance NOT spiritual guidance.

If you truly believe in live and let live and that your God is a supreme being, you will realise that he has better plans for me, he might convert me in a blinding flash, he may be using me as an instrument of the Devil! But whatever this guy is doing have patience , he is your God he knows what he is up to and doesn't want me bothered by you or yours at the moment.

Oh, and while we are at it leave other folk to at least get a chance to explain their views, (even Muslims), without fearing for your daughters soul's.


So far as Jehovah's Witnesses, they get the same short shrift from me as your lot, but I think it shows a very poor argument on your behalf to try and shift the focus elsewhere, why not try to blame the Jews for something as well? A smoke screen isn't something you can hide behind for ever.

You have made it obvious in all your posts that like me you are not willing to change your views but at least I won't interfere with you or anyone else if left alone, that, is live and let live.

[WillowTheWhisp]

Originally Posted by Less

Oh, and while we are at it leave other folk to at least get a chance to explain their views, (even Muslims), without fearing for your daughters soul's.

Have you missed what I have actually said on this subject? I have absolutely no objections whatsoever to my children learning about other religions. It's part of the school curriculum and I embrace that wholeheartedly. How can people ever hope to understand each other if they don't know the first thing about what the other person believes? It's a brilliant way for them to learn.

'Leaning about' is a million miles away from 'willingly participating in', and 'willingly participating in' is another million miles away from 'being forced to participate in'. The former two I have no problem with at all. It's the latter which I disapprove of. My eldest daughter has accompanied friends to other churches which they attend. Both have in the past (when they were young enough) gone along to the summer activities at Peel Street Baptist Church. They have both gone to other church youth clubs. I have been to the Jehovah's Witnesses Kingdom Hall, RC, CofE, Baptist, Methodist and pentecostal churches. I have been to a Jewish synagogue and a Muslim mosque (several if you count the ones we have visited on holiday). I have never tried to force my religion on anyone else and would never do so. I am willing to discuss it with others if they are interested and to correct any misconceptions which they may have.

I'm a member of 'a Church in which I have no authority to influence their views' because I believe the doctrine to be true. I would hope that it influences me rather than vice versa. I would still believe the doctrine to be true even if some of the members went doolally flip because that would be them as individuals and not the doctrine. When my first husband was alive and he was Ward Mission Leader I would have passed your address on to him with a request that the missionaries do not call on you. Now if you'd like to PM me your address I will pass it on to our current WML with the same request if you wish. I once worked with a woman who had met a couple of our missionaries on the train and had invited them to visit her at home and teach her but when she got home and told her husband he said he didn't want them. She asked me if I could contact them and let them know - so I did, and they didn't go round there. Now that doesn't mean that at some time in the future a new bunch of missionaries calling door to door might not knock on theirs but she is perfectly able to tell them 'no thank you' just as she could have done if she'd never laid eyes on Mormom missionaries before.

Of course I cannot alter the world wide missionary program of the church simply because a few AccyWebbers think it would be a good idea - but I can request our local missionaries to avoid you in particular if that is your wish. In some countries missionary work is not permitted by law. In which case our missionaries do not go there, or if they do they go as 'service missionaries' just helping and not proselyting. If they come to an area where cold calling is not permitted then they should not call there door to door either. I'm not saying that everyone of the thousands of missionaries throughout the world is perfect but they do try to do their best.

[katex]

Still would view this as play acting ... just the physical side of worship to show how it is done, and have no objection if it were a child of mine. Most kids of 11/12 years would just giggle when doing something foreign to them as this. It's what is in your heart whilst doing it, not just getting on your knees and facing Mecca.

Can always cross your fingers behind your back Willow...

I go to church weddings, etc., and although I have no religious feelings, will bow my head, even recite The Lord's Prayer in respect for the main players. What I am probably thinking at the time is what I will organise for my tea the next day, etc.

[WillowTheWhisp]

I can understand what you mean Katex, but perhaps it is different when you don't believe in anything to play act but I couldn't do that personally because I do believe and I would feel I was being a hypocrite.

If it meant enough to those children to not to want to participate in it I would have hoped that the teacher could have been a little more sensitive to their feelings and beliefs instead of giving them detention.

Once when I was in town someone in unfamiliar robes approached me and asked me to say a word I didn't know. I declined to say the word unless they explained to me what it meant. From that we had a discussion about tolerance and understanding and they were quite interested that I'd actually wanted to know rather than just either ignore them or just say it and walk away.

[Less]

Originally Posted by WillowTheWhisp

Have you missed what I have actually said on this subject?

Haven't missed a word, read each one with a sense of bewilderment, the views of all religious zealots fascinate me, don't get me wrong I know in your heart of hearts you believe all you say and mean well, but by heck lass you're not coming across with a great deal of what I would call Christian values.

[katex]

Well, as said before, think detention was a little harsh, but we just don't really know how the children reacted to this, and their attitude in class.

Agree, if the children did not wish to do it, particularly in the climate at the moment, she should have just smiled and said "Ok, just watch the others then". However, may have prompted the whole class to sit out .. LOL.

[West Ender]

Without going too far into the semantics except to say that, ultimately, Christians and Muslims are praying to the same god (The Father, Allah, Jehovah - just names) I don't think what the teacher did was particularly wrong. In today's hysterical (on both sides of the religious divide) climate her action was ill-judged and she should not, perhaps, have been surprised at the reactions of some of her pupils so her prime sin seems to me to have been naiveté. If she didn't anticipate the problems that resulted from her over-enthusiastic RE lesson she's not very au fait with today's world, is she?

[katex]

Originally Posted by West Ender

If she didn't anticipate the problems that resulted from her over-enthusiastic RE lesson she's not very au fait with today's world, is she?

Agree with that wholeheartedly West Ender .. they now hear so much anti-muslim at home these days, that they daren't cross the barrier of participating. The teacher should, like you say, be aware of this.

[WillowTheWhisp]

I agree with you up to that point West Ender. If the kids hadn't ended up getting detention I don't think there'd have been any story at all.

Katex may well be right though, the detention could have been for an attitude problem in the way they responded to the teacher rather than for not wanting to do something which they felt was contrary to their own beliefs.

Originally Posted by Less

Haven't missed a word, read each one with a sense of bewilderment, the views of all religious zealots fascinate me, don't get me wrong I know in your heart of hearts you believe all you say and mean well, but by heck lass you're not coming across with a great deal of what I would call Christian values.

Please can you explain to me what you consider to be unChristian about my values, bearing in mind that I always eagerly want to know what other people's beliefs are and would always defend their right to have those beliefs? In fact I've recently asked a Pagan lady to explain her beliefs and practices to me, not with the intent of decrying them but in a bid to better understand her as we seem to have such a lot in common. All I ask is that no-one (child or adult of any religion or none) should be forced to participate against their will in any (other) religion if they feel uncomfortable about doing so. I'm sorry but I can't understand what is unChristian about that.

One of the Articles of Faith of our Church states;
" We claim the privilege if worshipping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may." I stand 100% behind that statement.

[Less]

Originally Posted by WillowTheWhisp

Please can you explain to me what you consider to be unChristian about my values,

No I won't, I suggest you read through your own posts and see if there is something lacking in your Christian spirit, I am an atheist not your pastor!

[mallard]

Yes i think th same as vera its not british any more,but life must go on.

[Ernie]

"Our Father, who art in heaven, hallowed be THY NAME". Please forgive me for my quote from the Bible but I would like to explain my feelings toward this interesting thread.
As far as I see it and I have read about many religions of this world, there is only one God and he is a spiritual being with many names, Allah, Buddah, Jehovah, Krishna, etc... but sadly the human race being as it is, so split in its various beliefs and dogmas cannot yet see the full picture. If you imagine a mountain and the supreme being sitting on a throne at the top, with all the religionists all round the base of the mountain in such a position as they cannot see each other but they can see Him/Her, if you were to ask the Muslim he/she would say "that is Allah", and the Buddhist "that is Buddah" and so on until they all climb the mountain in the life long search for their own truth. It is then and only then when they meet one another at the top of the mountain they find out the real truth. Now comes the sad part which humanity ought to be ashamed of is the way we have treat one another in our search for the truth, and all the intolerance to others beliefs and last but by no means least the wars and loss of lives that have ocurred in the quest for this knowledge. (That is just my humble opinion)

[panther]

If my kids came home and told me they were made to pray to Allah, I would go ruddy mental!

I do NOT believe there is any God, im a atheist., so why on earth should my kids learn about summat that does not exist....To me or them?

I have nothing against Religion but my kids do not need preaching too either.