Young people today

[Gobsmacked]

I encounter them when they have gone beyond that stage, when they are so convinced that they should be entitled to anything they want that they just help themselves, or they throw a brick through a shop window simply because it's there or they are bored.

They steal a car, crash it, often injuring others in the process. They call it joy riding. Where is the joy?

An argument turns into a fight, a weapon is drawn - resulting in injury or death.

Then we find when they are arrested they are entitled to a defence - and who pays for that? You again dear tax payer. You and I.

Yes perhaps we only see the darker side Lampman but I'm convinced the dark is growing darker by the day.

So, what is the solution? The PC way obviously isn't working is it?

[KIPAX]

gobsmacked... . I simply dont believe hitting children is the answer..I have never ever said not to punish children.. only that hitting them isnt the answer... feel free to twist my words.. call me pc brigade and even laughingly blame me for the way society is (jeeze man) But I stick to my guns.. hitting children is not the answer in my opinion.. sorry you dont like it but please dont make childish remarks towards me just for having that opinion

[KIPAX]

OH MY GOD.... I DONT AGREE IN HITTING CHILDREN SO I LOSE NOT ONE BUT TWO KARMA


Well you can take them all if you want...I still wont hit children no matter what you say ..

[Gobsmacked]

Look at the evidence Kipax. Your ideology simply doesn't work.

[Gobsmacked]

Ye Gods and little fishes - why do Karma points worry people so much?

[Busman747]

Nice posting Gobsmacked! I agree with all you have said.

[KIPAX]

gobsmacked... what makes you think it worries me.. I was making the point that people are so far hitting children and so against those that wont that they take action like that.

gobsmacked so far you ahve accused me of being pc brigade.. accused me of being one of the reasons society is so bad and now accused me of worrying about karma..

I dont agree in hitting kids.. lets not make it one long personal attack against me just for having that though ok?

[Creweboy]

Lets face it...most youths in this area are growing up in a very poor and under-privilaged area. What better do kids know these days? They grow up with little and spending the rest of their youth resenting this fact! I totally believe that kids behave, more or less, how they are brought up by their PARENTS. It is so disheartening to walk through the town centre (on the occasions I can't avoid it) to see people who are, honestly, lucky if they can just about look after themselves pushing prams and who are pregnant again. It is just a downward spiral, the majority of people bringing up children in Accrington are those who can least afford and are able to.

And thats just it, some people should just not have children, the children they bring into the world just have little or no chance.

[Darby]

Horror.............I smacked my sons when they were very bad. And the youngest was recovering from Leukamia, but he had to be disciplined when he was really out of order, and he knew that! It hurt me more than it hurt them. They were smacked (not beaten) at an age where they could not logically understand why they had done something wrong, and I could not hold a rational conversation with them for them to understand what was wrong! But they sure understood a smacking (it didn't really hurt, but it embarassed and shocked them)

I also believe that what Kippax says is a valid an justified arguement. I would love to be able to do what he advocates, but I hold very strong beliefs, and was brought up the way I was brought-up, smacked very little, and only when I'd been very bad...and it worked for me, and my sister. When kids are older (depending on the individual), say about 12 or so, you can hold a rational discussion with them and smacking becomes redundant, and totally unnecessary

By that time they should know right from wrong, or we as parents, have failed in our parental duties.

With the advent of making physical punishment illegal (well in most instances), the discipline has gone (not all parents let it go - therefore not all kids have lost their self discipline). It's no good punishing the parents for a kids indiscretions, it's the kid who has to learn, and they won't learn if somebody else is punished! Remember the adage "Spare the rod and spoil the child" Dickensian...and extreme, but it made boys ..men!

We can argue until we are blue in the face about this issue...and nothing will change. Society has to redress the situation and that can only come from wise politicians and sensible law makers---fat chance of finding any of them!!

But the current situation is out of hand and worsening daily. Just ask yourself the following questions:

1. How did the situation become so bad?
2. What created the situation to worsen?
3. When did it start?
4. What values and examples are set by todays society to correct the situation or exacerbate it?
5. Who is willing to correct it (the situation that is)?
6. How can we go back to a society that is just and fair?

Some of my answers are:

Blame - Politicians, Political Correctness, The Legal Society, The Press, The Media, and finally the Parents and their deteriorating standards.

Correction - Dump the pollies, get rid of 95% of the Legal parasites, Make the Press and Media accountable for their tripe.
Make parents responsible for their own lack of self discipline, and responsible for their actions so they can set an example for todays young generation.
Make: No rights without responsibilities, a requirement of our society, and ditch the European Human Rights Bill.

I am not the worlds best dad...I am what I am............but my lads and grandchildren say I'm better than any other dad or grand-dad.

[KIPAX]

I have a question for all you people who say it is right to hit children if they have done wrong. Lets see if you can answer it without insulting me.

You say they have to learn and that hitting them is the way to do it. Gobsmacked, busman and a few others all say that is the answer. I say it is not and that there are other ways to punish children. I was happy to have a difference of opinion but it would seem I am to be insulted and accused of all manner of things for having my opinion......Thus gloves off then ..... My question is.

Does the concept of hitting someone for doing wrong only apply to children. Or do you hit the man in the pub for doing wrong. Do you hit the driver that annoys you. What about spouses.. I do things my wife thinks is wrong and my wife does thing I think is wrong . I am sure its the same in all partnerships at some time or another .. Do you hit your wife for doing something wrong... Or is it just children you hit?

Does this great plan of hitting people to make them learn only apply to hitting children?

[Darby]

You have every right Kippax to say what you think. I don't feel that anybody on this site is trying to blame you for the ills of our society:

My question is.

Does the concept of hitting someone for doing wrong only apply to children. Or do you hit the man in the pub for doing wrong. Do you hit the driver that annoys you. What about spouses.. I do things my wife thinks is wrong and my wife does thing I think is wrong . I am sure its the same in all partnerships at some time or another .. Do you hit your wife for doing something wrong... Or is it just children you hit?

Does this great plan of hitting people to make them learn only apply to hitting children?

Smacking is not Hitting!

When kids are older (depending on the individual), say about 12 or so, you can hold a rational discussion with them and smacking becomes redundant, and totally unnecessary

[KIPAX]

Smacking is not Hitting!

You keep telling your kids that.........

[Darby]

Originally Posted by KIPAX

You keep telling your kids that.........

They are big enough and tough enough, to smack me now. I asked them many times after they had grown up if it really did them any harm. Both said, they now believe it was necessary, because if I hadn't, they would have carried on to worse things.

Proof of the Pudding!

Were you never smacked as a kid? If you were HIT, then I can understand why you detest it!

[Lampman]

Whilst understanding Kipax's viewpoint,my original posting didn't advocate smacking/hitting children.
To the contary hitting these youngsters would be the least advisable action,apart from the legal implications;some of them are six foot four and more.
How would any of you handle such a confrontation and stay within the law.
Clue, a reasoned argument pointing out their shortcomings doesn't work!

[JohnW]

Originally Posted by Busman747

Sorry John W, but this lifestyle came from the U.S.A, Maybe you are sheltered from the lifestyle of the average American, but what the Americans do now, the Brits follow.............

Oh Puleeeeeeeeeeeeeese, don't blame America for all your ills. For Gods sake no-one asks you to copy the American way of life, take some responsibility for what you, as a country, do. If you are copying the American way then you must think they have something worth copying.

Someone else mentioned the shootings in schools. Yes, that's a terrible thing but we are picking on isolated incidents here. I am talking about the general attitude of the yob element in Europe. And the word "yob" also embraces people who are a lot older than teenagers. Here, we do not have that "If you have a nice car and I don't, I'm going to scratch the side of it with a coin" attitude. We don't have the mindless smashing up of bus shelters and telephone kiosks. That is what I'm getting at. The mindless acts of violence and willful damage that seem to have no logical reasoning behind them. There is little or no swearing or violence at sporting stadia. Of course there are always exceptions to every rule. I am talking about GENERAL ATTITUDES.