Your Country Needs YOU!

jambutty · 03-11-2006, 15:53

You have to imagine one of our top armed forces brass pointing a finger outwards.

The MOD has declared that our armed forces are some 5,000 personnel under strength and are looking to our young men and women to come forward and join the navy, air force or army.

Has it ever occurred to the Generals, Admirals and Air Vice Marshals that the reason why the armed forces are under strength might just be down to new recruits not wanting to be involved in illegal wars ordered by a foreigner and followed blindly by our PM? And then being sent into battle ill equipped.

lancsdave · 03-11-2006, 16:22

I think the shortage stems from cutbacks on recruitment for cost purposes before Iraq started. There's also the fact that lots of todays youth don't want to join the army because it involves discipline !

bullseyebarb · 03-11-2006, 17:05

Our recruitment goals are being met. Plus, re-enlistments are through the roof. Our military personnel are awesome. How lucky we are to have such wonderful men and women. Many citizen soldiers, (National Guard), live in our local community and I keep up with quite a few of them. I can tell you that they are most displeased by the way in which the media and members of a certain party have chosen to describe their service in Iraq and Afghanistan and the fact that the good things they have accomplished rarely get reported upon.

As for this being an illegal war, jambutty......perhaps if the UN had managed to enforce even ONE of its umpteen resolutions, rather than accepting bribes from Saddam, (and they were not alone in that), the U.S. wouldn't have needed to pick-up where it left off in 1991. After what happened to us on 9/11, everything changed. We would have been foolish indeed just to sit back and not do everything we could to protect our country.

SamF · 03-11-2006, 17:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by lancsdave

There's also the fact that lots of todays youth don't want to join the army because it involves discipline !

Either that or we don't like the idea of being shot.

Or the fact that some young people actually have a brain and may have reasons why they think the war is unjust.

Or the fact that they do not wish to become murderers.

lancsdave · 03-11-2006, 17:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by SamF

Either that or we don't like the idea of being shot.

Or the fact that some young people actually have a brain and may have reasons why they think the war is unjust.

Or the fact that they do not wish to become murderers.

The first 2 points are quite reasonable choices, The third is ridicolous.

SamF · 03-11-2006, 17:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by lancsdave

The first 2 points are quite reasonable choices, The third is ridicolous.

It's one of my reasons for not joining, I don't want to pull the trigger that ends a persons life, whats so ridiculous about that ?

lancsdave · 03-11-2006, 17:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by SamF

It's one of my reasons for not joining, I don't want to pull the trigger that ends a persons life, whats so ridiculous about that ?

Firing a gun as a member of the armed forces does not make you a murderer.

bullseyebarb · 03-11-2006, 17:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by SamF

It's one of my reasons for not joining, I don't want to pull the trigger that ends a persons life, whats so ridiculous about that ?

Would you be so squeamish if you were being shot at?

SamF · 03-11-2006, 17:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by bullseyebarb

Would you be so squeamish if you were being shot at?

Quote:

Originally Posted by lancsdave

Firing a gun as a member of the armed forces does not make you a murderer.

In who's eyes ?

What is the difference between that and shooting someone to rob their possessions, your killing people for their land, just because a lot of people are doing it doesn't make it right... and its supposed to be my generation that has no morales.

I have the choice to join the armed forces.

If I take the choice to join then I am taking the choice to put myself in the position where it's me or them and therefore my responsibility for my actions.

It is my choice whether I become a murderer or not, if I kill a man in war I didn't have to, as I did not have to join.

lancsdave · 03-11-2006, 18:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by SamF

In who's eyes ?

What is the difference between that and shooting someone to rob their possessions, your killing people for their land, just because a lot of people are doing it doesn't make it right... and its supposed to be my generation that has no morales.

I have the choice to join the armed forces.

If I take the choice to join then I am taking the choice to put myself in the position where it's me or them and therefore my responsibility for my actions.

It is my choice whether I become a murderer or not, if I kill a man in war I didn't have to, as I did not have to join.

Good job previous generations didn't have the same morals

bullseyebarb · 03-11-2006, 18:05

You are a little too young yet to understand the necessity of maintaining a strong military. One of these days, you may grow to appreciate the many sacrifices made by those who serve your country.

SamF · 03-11-2006, 18:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by bullseyebarb

You are a little too young yet to understand the necessity of maintaining a strong military. One of these days, you may grow to appreciate the many sacrifices made by those who serve your country.

A strong military is currently needed, that is obvious, as world peace seems a long way away. However why not use the military solely for defence, and not for policing the world. To counter-act the arguement that attacking another country is needed for defence I quote:

A pre-emptive war in 'defense' of freedom would surely destroy freedom, because one simply cannot engage in barbarous action without becoming a barbarian, because one cannot defend human values by calculated and unprovoked violence without doing mortal damage to the values one is trying to defend. - J. William Fulbright

And add the point that the war with Iraq has if anything made the chance of another big war even more. The USA and Britain, the supposed "Superpowers" are struggling to defeat a small country without a leader. Now any real threats will be thinking they've got a chance, seeing a 5 year old take Mike Tyson to the 12th Round would make Amir Khan consider his chances if you understand my point.

Also, please don't use my age as an excuse to not put up a half-decent debate.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lancsdave

Good job previous generations didn't have the same morals

Would you be saying that if it was your great great great grandad that died when another man wanted some more land ?