Hows this for law and order? - Page 3

Rosebud · 10-07-2007, 21:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by cashman

oh of coarse,you still have not come up with your answer on how to deal with these cretins. you remind me of Humpty Dumpty.

A custodial sentence would clearly be right in this case BUT it will resolve anything. His behaviour will not be challenged, his cognitive processes will not be addressed and he will not be rehabilitated. The sollution I would argue for is a well resourced, well funded altertnative secure estate that would enable this work to be undertaken on a longer term basis. Sadly whilst politicians are scared of being innovative due to the blinkered views of you and your ilk we are a long way from this sollution.
We will get there without you its just sad that it will take longer and the problems will get worse. Sadly what you cant even see is that you are part of that problem- why not be part of the sollution for a change.

Rosebud · 10-07-2007, 21:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by cashman

theres many with intelligence,few with common sense.

What??
A degree from the University of street smarts doesnt go down well on a job application though does it.

cashman · 10-07-2007, 22:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rosebud

A custodial sentence would clearly be right in this case BUT it will resolve anything. His behaviour will not be challenged, his cognitive processes will not be addressed and he will not be rehabilitated. The sollution I would argue for is a well resourced, well funded altertnative secure estate that would enable this work to be undertaken on a longer term basis. Sadly whilst politicians are scared of being innovative due to the blinkered views of you and your ilk we are a long way from this sollution.
We will get there without you its just sad that it will take longer and the problems will get worse. Sadly what you cant even see is that you are part of that problem- why not be part of the sollution for a change.

gee it must be great to be as smart as you, what you suggest is great on paper, but in the real world we all know these funds will NOT be available,much as you would hope,its you who are blinkered if you think they will,so people have to cope as life is,NOT as how you wish it,me and my ilk may be part of the problem, but rosebud YOU and your ILK ARE the problem.

Wynonie Harris · 10-07-2007, 22:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rosebud

Yes crime has increased in the half century time frame you identify. Society is much changed also with differing pressures, differing influences and differing problems.

Forget all the flannel; in other words, you admit crime HAS gone up. Well, in my view, crime has gone up because of do-gooders like yourself who have advocated a kidglove treatment to criminals and have, in fact, placed the needs of criminals above those of their victims. And just how much of a deterrent is prison these days with TVs, computer games and other facilities? Perhaps if prisoners were kept in harsher conditions, they would think twice about getting themselves locked up again.

But what the heck would I know? After all. I'm just a poor, undereducated soul with a narrow frame of reference. It must be wonderful to have your masterful insight and keen, probing mind, Rosebud!

garinda · 10-07-2007, 22:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rosebud

The stock response of the undereducated when faced with anything outside their narrow frame of reference.

There should be a comma, after uneducated.

Wynonie Harris · 10-07-2007, 22:12

Oh, by the way, Rosebud, solution has one l not two. Obviously. English wasn't part of this wonderful education you had!

Rosebud · 10-07-2007, 22:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by cashman

gee it must be great to be as smart as you, what you suggest is great on paper, but in the real world we all know these funds will NOT be available,much as you would hope,its you who are blinkered if you think they will,so people have to cope as life is,NOT as how you wish it,me and my ilk may be part of the problem, but rosebud YOU and your ILK ARE the problem.

Surprise surprise I disagree.
The reformed Criminal Justice an Immigration Bill goes soem way to starting to address these issues and begin the process of this change- in quite major ways in the youth criminal justice system. Expected time frame to this being passed by Parliament- probably by end 2008.
Also the Youth Justice Baord has this year undertaken a massive amount of work in challenging the manner and nature of juvenile incarceration.
The ball is rolling.
If you feel, truly feel, that its 'great on paper'- dont settle for our society not pursuing this standard just beacuse its the harder path. We dont have to 'cope' with life as it is we have the capacity to change it for the better. The glass is half full.
We live in an amazing country with amazing history and with an amazing capacity to adapt and change- why sell ourselves short?

Rosebud · 10-07-2007, 22:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wynonie Harris

Forget all the flannel; in other words, you admit crime HAS gone up. Well, in my view, crime has gone up because of do-gooders like yourself who have advocated a kidglove treatment to criminals and have, in fact, placed the needs of criminals above those of their victims. And just how much of a deterrent is prison these days with TVs, computer games and other facilities? Perhaps if prisoners were kept in harsher conditions, they would think twice about getting themselves locked up again.

But what the heck would I know? After all. I'm just a poor, undereducated soul with a narrow frame of reference. It must be wonderful to have your masterful insight and keen, probing mind, Rosebud!

Crime has gone uo in the 50 YEAR!! time frame you initially asked about but has fallen over the last 5 years. Are you seriously comparing Britain 2007 with 1957?
You have NO idea about the treatment I would advoctae of offenders so how can you possibly criticise it?

Yes it is good to have a probing mind.

Finally- apologies for the spelling errors and dodgy punctuation- clearly this bothers you- I am not great at typing and tend to rush- ah well none of us is perfect

cashman · 10-07-2007, 22:23

the standard you speak of can never be attained,money or no money,unless these offenders are taught to RESPECT, its that simple is the answer, not simple to attain,but nevertheless its a must.

Rosebud · 10-07-2007, 22:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by garinda

There should be a comma, after uneducated.

No there shouldn't.

Wynonie Harris · 10-07-2007, 22:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rosebud

We dont have to 'cope' with life as it is we have the capacity to change it for the better. The glass is half full.
We live in an amazing country with amazing history and with an amazing capacity to adapt and change- why sell ourselves short?

Sadly, this is the sort of waffle that is all too common amongst the great and the good, living in their ivory towers...meanwhile the rest of us out in the real world are having to cope with the consequences of criminality.

(By the way, Rosebud, there should be an apostrophe in don't and there a few other errors I would like to have a word about...).

garinda · 10-07-2007, 22:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rosebud

No there shouldn't.

No man who worships education has got the best out of education.... Without a gentle contempt for education no man's education is complete.

~G.K. Chesterton

Rosebud · 10-07-2007, 22:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by cashman

the standard you speak of can never be attained,money or no money,unless these offenders are taught to RESPECT, its that simple is the answer, not simple to attain,but nevertheless its a must.

But yes it can - RESPECT as you very very rightly say can be the cornerstone of this new system. The 'Respect agenda' in schools and local communities has gone some way to start and achieve this.
I agree offenders should be taught to respect- respect others, respect communities, respect property, authority, the law and themselves- what I am saying is that throwing them in a cell isn't doing this- despite the luxurious picture Wyn paints of prison life.
So lets have prisons of course- lets lock people who are a threat up but for christ's sake lets then make sure that we dont have ten times the problem coming out at the other end.

Wynonie Harris · 10-07-2007, 22:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rosebud

clearly this bothers you- I am not great at typing and tend to rush- ah well none of us is perfect

You're the one who keeps banging on about your education, so you've only got yourself to blame!

garinda · 10-07-2007, 22:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rosebud

But yes it can - RESPECT as you very very rightly say can be the cornerstone of this new system. The 'Respect agenda' in schools and local communities has gone some way to start and achieve this.
I agree offenders should be taught to respect- respect others, respect communities, respect property, authority, the law and themselves- what I am saying is that throwing them in a cell isn't doing this- despite the luxurious picture Wyn paints of prison life.
So lets have prisons of course- lets lock people who are a threat up but for christ's sake lets then make sure that we dont have ten times the problem coming out at the other end.

Some of them are already learning skills in prison they can use on their release. Sewing, drug dealing, and buggery, spring to mind.