Hows this for law and order? - Page 4

Rosebud · 10-07-2007, 22:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wynonie Harris

Sadly, this is the sort of waffle that is all too common amongst the great and the good, living in their ivory towers...meanwhile the rest of us out in the real world are having to cope with the consequences of criminality.

(By the way, Rosebud, there should be an apostrophe in don't and there a few other errors I would like to have a word about...).

Forget the petulance and have an adult debate-
What do you identify as waffle? You might not agree with the content but it is a perfectly coherent argument.

Rosebud · 10-07-2007, 22:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by garinda

Some of them are already learning skills in prison they can use on their release. Sewing, drug dealing, and buggery, spring to mind.

Not a great deal of call for drug dealing buggers who can cross stitch though.
It would make for an interesting CV though

cashman · 10-07-2007, 22:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rosebud

But yes it can - RESPECT as you very very rightly say can be the cornerstone of this new system. The 'Respect agenda' in schools and local communities has gone some way to start and achieve this.
I agree offenders should be taught to respect- respect others, respect communities, respect property, authority, the law and themselves- what I am saying is that throwing them in a cell isn't doing this- despite the luxurious picture Wyn paints of prison life.
So lets have prisons of course- lets lock people who are a threat up but for christ's sake lets then make sure that we dont have ten times the problem coming out at the other end.

ah good we agree on summat,where i cannot agree though is how its progressing in schools,while the teachers may be trying hard they are on a no-win situation cos they are toothless, since the do-good brigade interfered.

Wynonie Harris · 10-07-2007, 22:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rosebud

The 'Respect agenda' in schools and local communities has gone some way to start and achieve this.

What planet are you living on? This was just another spin-doctored, headline-grabbing gimmick from the Blair government. I haven't seen any sign of increased respect out on the streets or amongst school kids. Back to the sociology textbooks, Rosebud!

garinda · 10-07-2007, 22:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rosebud

Not a great deal of call for drug dealing buggers who can cross stitch though.
It would make for an interesting CV though

The Parisian houses of haute couture are full of them, and would provide a willing opening for any old lag.

Wynonie Harris · 10-07-2007, 22:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rosebud

We dont have to 'cope' with life as it is we have the capacity to change it for the better. The glass is half full.

THAT'S what I class as "waffle". Mundane, cliched psychobabble of the sort that politicians come out with when they're trying to get our votes.

garinda · 10-07-2007, 22:45

Lets face it, most, not all, young people are less respectful to the rest of society, than they were fifty years ago. Fact.

They have nothing to be afraid of if they are caught doing wrong. The worst that can happen is a rare custodial sentence, and to most of those chavs that's just a nice little holiday, but with cleaner sheets and better food.

Rosebud · 10-07-2007, 22:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by cashman

ah good we agree on summat,where i cannot agree though is how its progressing in schools,while the teachers may be trying hard they are on a no-win situation cos they are toothless, since the do-good brigade interfered.

I have some symapthy with this - we are a long way off achieving it I agree but it certainly has started. I dont think teachers are toothless- I think they have an excetionally difficult job and face a tremendous amount of red tape but still make a huge difference.

Rosebud · 10-07-2007, 22:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by garinda

Lets face it, most, not all, young people are less respectful to the rest of society, than they were fifty years ago. Fact.

They have nothing to be afraid of if they are caught doing wrong. The worst that can happen is a rare custodial sentence, and to most of those chavs that's just a nice little holiday, but with cleaner sheets and better food.

Custody for juveniles in Britain is not rare comparatively with the rest of the world.
Secure Units and Young Offenders Institutues are not holiday camps- can i ask what you are basing this assessment on?

garinda · 10-07-2007, 22:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rosebud

Custody for juveniles in Britain is not rare comparatively with the rest of the world.
Secure Units and Young Offenders Institutues are not holiday camps- can i ask what you are basing this assessment on?

My past criminal history.

WillowTheWhisp · 10-07-2007, 22:52

How do you imagine respect can be taught in schools to kids who do not have enough respect to accept the teaching?

BTW love that split infinitive back there the likes of which Winston Churchill said 'up with which he would not put'.

Rosebud · 10-07-2007, 22:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wynonie Harris

THAT'S what I class as "waffle". Mundane, cliched psychobabble of the sort that politicians come out with when they're trying to get our votes.

The difference is I mean it- passionately. Its sad that you see it as waffle and lack the vision and drive to improve things. Never mind we 'do-gooders' will do it for you and just let you know what has happened when we have finished.

harwood red · 10-07-2007, 22:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by cashman

ah good we agree on summat,where i cannot agree though is how its progressing in schools,while the teachers may be trying hard they are on a no-win situation cos they are toothless, since the do-good brigade interfered.

have to agree with you on one point cashy and that is RESPECT is at the centre of it all...

where I will disagree is that it IS progressing in some schools... but of course I can only talk of my two son's school...I am amazed at the respect that is shown by the pupils at the school and also that also includes the teachers giving the kids respect too...

don't get me wrong there will always be issues, but I do believe this school has the balance right between discipline and education.. my youngest son was disciplined recently for what was classed as a very minor thing in many people's eyes, yet he was punished quite severely.

Hooray I say...yes it was a bit overkill but he learnt from it

garinda · 10-07-2007, 22:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rosebud

Never mind we 'do-gooders' will do it for you and just let you know what has happened when we have finished.

Thanks awfully, but we'd rather you didn't.

Rosebud · 10-07-2007, 22:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by garinda

My past criminal history.

I suspect that you have not spent time recently in a YOI or prison- I have. They are not holidaty camps I can assure you. Unless Butlins has also now developed an incredibly high suicide rate.