Manchester Dogs Home Fire

[Margaret Pilkington]

Originally Posted by Accyexplorer

It's refreshing to know that folk will give generously for dogs whilst our British elderly in care homes and children in orphanages suffer abuse and terrible care.
In Korea they're probably salivating at the thought of barbecued dog.
I don't see a million plus raised for say the 2,000+ men, women and children who were locked into a small piece of land and had bombs dropped on them (they had nowhere to go either).

The things you cite are totally unconnected......another diversionary tactic.
People give to the charities that mean the most to them...for whatever reasons.
There is a lot of 'charity fatigue' out there. This is because many charities are run like businesses with money skimmed off the donations to pay lucrative salaries to the CEO's.
When a local dogs home goes up in flames, local people WANT to do what they can to help...purely because they know the donation is going to a LOCAL CAUSE.

There are always going to be needy people in the world.....and every time there is a disaster somewhere the Brits pull out all the stops and raise money to help.
How much of the help actually gets to the people who need it is anybody's guess.

If you really want to campaign for better care for the elderly.....then go ahead and do it.....as for orphanages.....there won't be many of those in this country(children's homes.....yes....orphanages...I don't think so).
As for the 2000+women and children being bombed.....where was this?
Was it Syria, or perhaps the mountains where IS carried out an ethnic cleansing job.....well, if it was one of those places....there are Brits who have gone out to tender humanitarian aid. Only the other day one of them was murdered.....so much for humanity, so much for charity.

[Gordon Booth]

Originally Posted by Accyexplorer

I don't see a million plus raised for say the 2,000+ men, women and children who were locked into a small piece of land and had bombs dropped on them (they had nowhere to go either).

British aid to Palestine £80,000,000 per year.

[gpick24]

If you feel there are better causes then there is nothing stopping you from setting this up. Someone, somewhere has felt this to be a good cause and has done something about it rather than whinging that someone else hasn`t done it.

[cashman]

Its just another feeble attempt to provoke a reaction.

[Accyexplorer]

The point I was trying make is some folk care more about animals than humans (I know,it's hypocritical after my 'pigs used by soldiers' thread).
Where was all these generous dog lovers when these dogs needed a ruddy home and not a shelter?

Recently some folk I know managed to help save an old folks recreation centre that was faced with closure due to cuts in Local Government grants. As it stands, the centres future is probably only guaranteed for say a year, and I'm convinced that the main reason for private donations coming forward was to take it out the picture as an issue in the last lot of Local Council elections. Even if they'd locked the old folk in and set fire to the building I doubt they'd of achieved anything like enough in donations to make it financially sound.

[Accyexplorer]

Originally Posted by Gordon Booth

British aid to Palestine £80,000,000 per year.

Fair play, I guess that's good old Britain, a country which falls over itself to give millions of pounds in aid but balks at the idea of giving its own homeless,elderly and unemployed a few quid to live on

[Margaret Pilkington]

Originally Posted by Accyexplorer

The point I was trying make is some folk care more about animals than humans (I know,it's hypocritical after my 'pigs used by soldiers' thread).
Where was all these generous dog lovers when these dogs needed a ruddy home and not a shelter?

Recently some folk I know managed to help save an old folks recreation centre that was faced with closure due to cuts in Local Government grants. As it stands, the centres future is probably only guaranteed for say a year, and I'm convinced that the main reason for private donations coming forward was to take it out the picture as an issue in the last lot of Local Council elections. Even if they'd locked the old folk in and set fire to the building I doubt they'd of achieved anything like enough in donations to make it financially sound.

Jason, I respect your views, but sometimes you talk a lot of twaddle.
There is a huge great difference between what happened in Manchester, and the case of the old folks recreation centre.
Talking of LCC cuts and reduction in services is something entirely different.

People expect to have these services from the money they pay in taxes.....and perhaps there would be fewer of these cuts if we did not send eighty million quid abroad to be squandered on anything other than the cause for which the money was given.

The donations given to the Manchester Dogs home were at a time of urgent need...a crisis.
I said in a previous post that the British are very good at giving their hard earned dosh in times of crisis....and this was the case here.....that and they can actually see where the money is going.
As for your comment about donations to fund an old folks recreation centre.....the old folk of this country are increasingly portrayed as a drain on the system....they are seen to have little social value....they are seen as non contributors.......the powers that be wish that we would all go away somewhere.....and without a fuss, shuffle of this mortal coil.

When you started this thread, it was put into Anything Goes.....which suggests to me that you saw it as being of little consequence.....you gave it a flippant title(ok, this has been changed now...probably as a result of how the comments were going).
Again all this suggests that you posted this, having some idea of the response it would provoke.
I really thought that the thread about soldiers and pigs had been something you had learned from.....a case of hope triumphing over experience.
I am disappointed.

[Margaret Pilkington]

Oh and another thing, putting a grinning green emoticon at the end of a sentence which is serious in its content, does nothing to further your cause or make you appear concerned about the elderly, the unemployed, the poor....it just makes you appear insensitive and crass.

[Accyexplorer]

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

Jason, I respect your views, but sometimes you talk a lot of twaddle.
There is a huge great difference between what happened in Manchester, and the case of the old folks recreation centre.
Talking of LCC cuts and reduction in services is something entirely different.

People expect to have these services from the money they pay in taxes.....and perhaps there would be fewer of these cuts if we did not send eighty million quid abroad to be squandered on anything other than the cause for which the money was given.

The donations given to the Manchester Dogs home were at a time of urgent need...a crisis.
I said in a previous post that the British are very good at giving their hard earned dosh in times of crisis....and this was the case here.....that and they can actually see where the money is going.
As for your comment about donations to fund an old folks recreation centre.....the old folk of this country are increasingly portrayed as a drain on the system....they are seen to have little social value....they are seen as non contributors.......the powers that be wish that we would all go away somewhere.....and without a fuss, shuffle of this mortal coil.

When you started this thread, it was put into Anything Goes.....which suggests to me that you saw it as being of little consequence.....you gave it a flippant title(ok, this has been changed now...probably as a result of how the comments were going).
Again all this suggests that you posted this, having some idea of the response it would provoke.
I really thought that the thread about soldiers and pigs had been something you had learned from.....a case of hope triumphing over experience.
I am disappointed.

I admit, yes, I knew exactly what response this thread would get and also what road it would eventually take,Thus why I put it in anything goes (perhaps I could be a little more serious). I didn't think my ("flippant") title was so bad that it needed to be changed but saying that some of my past titles haven't exactly met the criteria for the site either.

Sorry your disappointed M, I'll except my knuckle wrapping an be quite now..... (till next time)

[Accyexplorer]

I nearly forgot, what's folk views on naming and shaming this lad? (if he is found to be guilty).
It's already been done on another site and personally I'm not sure I agree with it....Hmmm.

I think rather than naming and shaming this lad (if guilty) he needs a comprehensive psychiatric assessment followed by lengthy sentence for the protection of the rest of society.

[Margaret Pilkington]

I am not rapping your knuckles.
I am(like you) expressing an opinion.....trying to add something to the discussion.
Not the fudges and the red herrings that some have thrown in with the intention of diverting the discussion to other topics.....which could be threads in their own right.....and have no real relevance to the subject being discussed.....and some of which have been fully covered in other threads.

As for your question about naming and shaming. It appears that there is precious little shame in the youths that do questionable/criminal acts these days.....so, No would be my answer......and you have come quite a way since your first thoughts......wanting a thorough psychological/ psychiatric appraisal of this youth now.
He has to go through the due process of law, I'm sure that he will be subjected to such an appraisal prior to any conviction or sentencing.

[Eric]

Originally Posted by Accyexplorer

The point I was trying make is some folk care more about animals than humans
Where was all these generous dog lovers when these dogs needed a ruddy home and not a shelter?

Hey ... I care more about animals than I do about humans ... although I don't see how the one has to exclude the other.

And one should consider that the problems facing dogs are not those of their own creating. Whereas the problems facing humans are, in the main, manufactured by humans. Consider all the current outrage at the actions of ISIS ... and yet ISIS exists in the powerful form it does today primarily as a result of the Anglo-American rape of Iraq.

And those "generous dog lovers" are probably hanging out with those that condemn the atrocious working conditions in third world factories, yet are unwilling to give up the cheap clothing labeled "Made in Bangladesh."

And where were all those "human lovers" when European Jews needed a shelter and not a death camp? They were busy establishing quotas that condemned thousands to extermination.

[Margaret Pilkington]

Maybe we should home the elderly in prisons and the criminals in old folks care homes...ok not a new idea, but worth considering.

[Accyexplorer]

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

As for your question about naming and shaming. It appears that there is precious little shame in the youths that do questionable/criminal acts these days.....so, No would be my answer......and you have come quite a way since your first thoughts......wanting a thorough psychological/ psychiatric appraisal of this youth now.
He has to go through the due process of law, I'm sure that he will be subjected to such an appraisal prior to any conviction or sentencing.

"Quite a way" I've done a complete u turn,when I started the thread I was a little emotional as i myself am a dog owner.

Since reading the replies and getting things put into perspective (from folk on this site) along with reading comments (on other sites) from folk that want to do a array of unspeakable things to this lad (and his family) I feel kind of sorry for him and his family now (more than a bit shady/dodgy for piling in and advocating the mod rule on the condemnation of a 'child' who I really know nothing about).

Is he a psychopath? Hmmm, I highly doubt his intention was to kill all these dogs (I may be wrong).
More likely it's just some silly childish prank gone very wrong, committed by a young non thinking idiot who has probably ruined his and his families life's by committing this offence (the cells are likely to be the safest place for him after his details were published online).

A number of folk are also blaming his parents
If he is a psychopath (As I'm sure you know) Some 'psychopaths' are the way they are from birth, so he could be the way he is through no fault of his parents but yet they are the ones getting death threats.

[Accyexplorer]

Originally Posted by Eric

Hey ... I care more about animals than I do about humans ... although I don't see how the one has to exclude the other.

And one should consider that the problems facing dogs are not those of their own creating. Whereas the problems facing humans are, in the main, manufactured by humans. Consider all the current outrage at the actions of ISIS ... and yet ISIS exists in the powerful form it does today primarily as a result of the Anglo-American rape of Iraq.

And those "generous dog lovers" are probably hanging out with those that condemn the atrocious working conditions in third world factories, yet are unwilling to give up the cheap clothing labeled "Made in Bangladesh."

And where were all those "human lovers" when European Jews needed a shelter and not a death camp? They were busy establishing quotas that condemned thousands to extermination.

Fair points E, it's comments like yours that help me put things into perspective