Waccy Baccy in Accy - Page 4

HarryX · 08-09-2003, 22:15

Quote:

Cannibis user who are peace full people

There law breakers. They are breaking the law of the land and should be arrested taken to court and dealt with..

Yes drinking to extreme is worse... But thats a poor argument for drug taking. Thats like saying beating someone up is OK because its not as bad as killing them

ANNE... Just checking.. you did read the bit about me not giving up until everyone agrees with me didnt you  ;D Just checking hehe  ;D

ANNE · 08-09-2003, 22:16

SORRY Harry shouldn't call you old.

HarryX · 08-09-2003, 22:22

Quote:

Take a chill pill Harry.

When did you add that bit?

Good night Anne

ANNE · 08-09-2003, 22:41

Oh Yes Harry. Always like a Challenge my-self. Nothing like a Good debate. ;D ;D
Like something i can get my teeth into. Metaphorically speaking. Havn't got any teeth. lol.
Oh, dear i'm going to use a phase of mine people can't get their heads round. Your the same has me but different.
Will say "GOOD NIGHT HARRY"
Need to recharge batteries.

Jo · 09-09-2003, 07:16

Quote "It's ILLEGAL"

HarryX,

we KNOW that drugs are illegal, the topic is not whether they are illegal or not, but whether the general consensus in Accy is changing with the times. Does the opening of the café imply that people (I know you are NOT, but people in general) are becoming more lax on the subject?

You know, one big problem in a "democracy" like GB is that we have a majority system, that means the everyday guy or gal on the street has *VERY VERY little chance to influence the law. It is even worse if people just accept the laws because they are law. Your argument is that drugs are illegal so they are wrong. If the contraception pill became illegal, or worse, breathing oxygen became illegal, would you stop JUST BECAUSE IT IS ILLEGAL???
I repeat, I am personally not in favour of drugs, but I am willing to listen to the views of those that are for legalising them, as I feel that some of their arguments are valid (for example, it could lower crime rate, take the attraction away from drugs taking and certainly take the attraction away from drug dealing).
Also, a question: is it illegal to TAKE drugs in England? I know *that it is ILLEGAL to deal, but in most European countries it is not illegal to be in possession of drugs for personal consumption. As this is a European Directive and England is in the EU I presume the same applies. If it doesn't it will within a couple of years, as European Law permits this time for the country in question to adopt the new directive.

Jo · 09-09-2003, 07:20

p.s. I'm so proud that I have finally initiated an interesting tiopic...... ;D

Mik Dickinson · 09-09-2003, 07:48

believe it or not,I have it on good Authority that large pharmaceutical companys are looking to combine Marijuana in their drugs for bad eyesights.Apparently a tribe in the Pacific smoke it a lot, and their nightvision is up 38% better than a normal person.Agreee drugs are illegal.So is prostitution.Both of these have been legalised in certain European countries and the tax these countries amke on it are unbelievable.After all legal or not it si going to be done anyway so why should the government not make money on it.By teh way my sister in Burnley is a crack head so i do feel strongly about drugs.

HarryX · 09-09-2003, 08:04

I do believe it. I also recall its good to help ease the pain for a number of illness.

I for one have never said drugs are bad for you.  I ahve quite clearly stated why I am against drugs and no amount of debating can get any of you past that point.

Jo we don't live in any of these other countries.. Either you agree it is wrong to take drugs because they are illegal or you think people should break the law.

Its that simple

Jo · 09-09-2003, 08:24

No Harry, it is not that simple for people who believe that we all should have a say in making the law. If people like you and I do not question the right or wrong of things, law makers will continue to do whatever they like without considering the views of the voters. In England this is particularly extreme because of the almost "undemocratic" first past the post voting system.
Also, I am not talking about other countries, I am talking about England. Are you sure it is still illegal to TAKE soft drugs in England. I am almost sure that possession for your own consumption is not illegal, and if it still is it will not be within a coupole of years because of the European Directive.
Harry, since 1973 you have been and continue to be a European Citizen. On the front of the your passport it says UK of GB and N. Ireland. European Communities model. So if we talk of Holland, or France or Germany etc., we are talking of coutries with which you are bound, as a European citizen since 1973.
The UK is bound by treaty to adopt and imply all European drictives, so the one I am talking of is, or is about to be, reality for the UK.
Anyone any input on the law for possession in the UK please?

HarryX · 09-09-2003, 08:39

Quote:

No Harry, it is not that simple for people who believe that we all should have a say in making the law. If people like you and I do not question the right or wrong of things, law makers will continue to do whatever they like without considering the views of the voters. In England this is particularly extreme because of the almost "undemocratic" first past the post voting system.

I agree

Quote:

Also, I am not talking about other countries, I am talking about England.

You keep reffering to other countries to back up your argument. I keep reffering you to the fact that we are talking about this country

Quote:

Are you sure it is still illegal to TAKE soft drugs in England. I am almost sure that possession for your own consumption is not illegal, and if it still is it will not be within a coupole of years because of the European Directive.

Hmm I am talking about NOW and not in a couple of years.. I dont know if it is as you say.. I only know what I know...If you follow..As far as I know it is illegal right now in this country..

My question that you seem unable to answer is... Are you suggesting people should break the law and take drugs. Or do you believe that if it is agaist the law then you shouldnt do it ?

Quote:

Harry, since 1973 you have been and continue to be a European Citizen. On the front of the your passport it says UK of GB and N. Ireland. European Communities model. So if we talk of Holland, or France or Germany etc., we are talking of coutries with which you are bound, as a European citizen since 1973.

Sigh.. Does this really come under "I am not talking about other countries" ????  England is not governed by those laws.. You know that and no matter how many times you bring other counrtries into it (then say your not) you can't get past the fact that we are talking about this country and specifcly Accrington...Sorry but Accrington does not come under the laws of Holland or anywhere else

Quote:

The UK is bound by treaty to adopt and imply all European drictives, so the one I am talking of is, or is about to be, reality for the UK.
Anyone any input on the law for possession in the UK please

They may be bound to adopt it.. BUT UNTIL THEY DO ??

I am unsure as to the law on personal consumption.. The last i heard was in Brixton they where trying out a 100% tollerence and in effect turning a blind eye.. Wether them trials where deemed a success I dont know..  I doubt drug taking is legal and I doubt using a public place (ie the cafe you mention) to congregate and take drugs with your mates is legal either.. In fact sure it isnt..

The arguments so far are.
Others countries do it so its OK
Drinking is worse so its OK
Is not bad for you so its OK
blah blah

Most of the above I would agree with... That doesnt alter the fact that if its illegal then you shouldnt do it...

Or are you saying that right now.. in this time and this country you think people should break the law and openly take drugs... Are you saying that?? If not then your agreeing with me that its wrong to take drugs..

Are you ever going to answer that question ?

Jo · 09-09-2003, 09:25

Harry X
1) England is part of Europe and whether you like it or not, it is governed by European Directives so I am not talking about other countries I am talking about laws that affect all parts of the EU, including Accy. Hope the "Euro" has finally dropped, so to say.
2) Possession and personal consumption of class c drugs in the UK is probably already legal - I am awaiting confirmation form someone with more precise information.
3) If it isn't legal, then I agree with you, you shouldn't break the law. But then you agree that smoking dope will be OK in 2 years time when it will be legal.
4) If possession and consumption is illegal how can a café operate under the nose of the police?
5) you still haven't told us if you would stop breathing if Tony Blair announced it to be illegal. How can you influence the legal system if you think the laws are always right
6) would be very interested to know what laws you have broken, you said there were several. Why do you consider that some may be broken and others not? Isn't this a little inconsequent?
7) Please quote those who have said :
"other countries do it so it's OK" - I think I said "other countires do it" - didn't mention it being OK or not
"drinking is worse so it's OK" - Anne and I hve both stated that drinking has been proven to be worse than cannabis both physically and for society. Neither of us said it was OK though
"It is not bad for you so it is OK" - haven't found that one anywhere, please quote.
"blah blah" - of course there is lots of blah blah, it's a chat forum.
I have interpreted your arguments thus:
1) "it is illegal so it's bad - other illegal things may be done however and it will be OK to take class c drugs as soon as Tony B gives the OK"
2) "maybe it is already legal in the UK and Europe, but Accy is different, I refuse to admit that we have been part of Europe for 30 years"
3) "drinking is not bad because it is legal, even if it causes many problems in society, who cares, it is legal."
4) "I don't want dope to be legalised because if it were legal I would do it and would start smoking again. I am weak and unable to make up my own mind - please protect me with the law, otherwise if it is legal I will have to do it because it will be legal and therefore OK."
5) "the argument is whether it is legal or not - has the penny dropped yet? We are not discussing the pros and cons and opinions on the café or drugs in general just whether it is legal or not. Why don't they want to understand me"

And finally, yes I will answer your last question (again), I refer to ALL my earlier posts, I do not believe people should break the law and openly take drugs in England or in other countries as I believe it can bring about health problems (similar to those of tobacco) and social problems (though maybe not as bad as those caused by alcohol). However, the reason I don't think people should smoke cannabis is not because it is illegal, because I don't think it IS illegal any more. And if it is, then no, you shouldn't break the law, but if it ISN'T illegal, my arguments stay valid - I would not take drugs nor encourage others to do so whether they are legal or not - in the same way as I don't smoke or encourage smoking.

Ruud · 09-09-2003, 09:30

IM staying out of this argument today, Harry will e - mail you later with list

Jo · 09-09-2003, 09:36

Aw, come on Ruud, give us some input, you must all be sick of just me and Harry posting, get involved, you're opinions are as important as anyone elses. Also, do YOU know the current law on consumption and possession in the UK of class C drugs?

HarryX · 09-09-2003, 09:37

Jo

Quote:

I do not believe people should break the law and openly take drugs in England

Thank you at last... As far as we know it is illegal therefore you agree with me it is wrong to take drugs in Accrington... Great stuff.. Glad we cleared that up

NEXT ?

Jo · 09-09-2003, 09:40

See, I told you we were saying the same thing all along.

NEXT:

1) "it is illegal so it's bad - other illegal things may be done however and it will be OK to take class c drugs as soon as Tony B gives the OK"
2) "maybe it is already legal in the UK and Europe, but Accy is different, I refuse to admit that we have been part of Europe for 30 years"
3) "drinking is not bad because it is legal, even if it causes many problems in society, who cares, it is legal."
4) "I don't want dope to be legalised because if it were legal I would do it and would start smoking again. I am weak and unable to make up my own mind - please protect me with the law, otherwise if it is legal I will have to do it because it will be legal and therefore OK."
5) "the argument is whether it is legal or not - has the penny dropped yet? We are not discussing the pros and cons and opinions on the café or drugs in general just whether it is legal or not. Why don't they want to understand me"

Please clarify above points. :-*