alternative care for elderly

[Fra]

I'm looking into something I heard about on telly once whereby someone suitable lives rent free with an elderly person in return for company and a few hours help peer week. I know a 92 year old who would benefit from this as she lives alone and finding it increasingly difficult. Does anyone have experience with this? I've seen some websites that do this but they have a a fee. Maybe that would be the best way if they manage paperwork etc

[MargaretR]

I am 72 and can assure you that more than 'a few hours help' would be needed.

[Fra]

Yes agreed but it's better than none as is the case now! It's marvellous how she's coped this long. She was a widow at 50. The websites suggest a minimum of 10 hours per week. I think more is needed if she is to live at home as long as possible.

[Margaret Pilkington]

This is how wealthy folk used to do it.
'The Lady' magazine used to be full of adverts for ladies companions.....but I think that although it might sound like a good idea, there could be problems if not thought through fully.
Many elderly people who have been alone for a long time are set in their ways.......and want company on their terms.
Also if you give up your accommodation to do this kind of thing, what happens if the person employing you dies?
How long would it be to get some rented accommodation and would you be allowed to remain in the deceaseds property until you got somewhere to live.
What would be your duties whilst living with the elderly person?
Would you get time off?
All these issues need to be negotiated very carefully and with clarity for both parties before being embarked upon.

[accyman]

there used to be a similar scheme when i was a teenager that ran from marthome grange

every thursday night they would hold an event where older women could snatch up a younger man for companionship

things wernt as politically correct back then and things got called what they were hence the name

grab a granny night...

mind you the lodging offered wasnt long term but the scheme did keep a few youngun's off the streets i guess

[Accyexplorer]

Personally,I think it sounds like a recipe for disaster.
I don't believe half of the carers I've seen should be doing any sort of care work.
They seem to be either just in it for the money,power trippers or think they know it all and that's without mentioning those with insufficient experience/training.
Most the carers I've dealt with need monitoring a hell of a lot more than they are and this should preferably be done by family member or guardian of the service user.

[Fra]

Just looking at an alternative to getting taken into a miserable care home where they take every everything you have and fast!

[Margaret Pilkington]

Originally Posted by Accyexplorer

Personally,I think it sounds like a recipe for disaster.
I don't believe half of the carers I've seen should be doing any sort of care work.
They seem to be either just in it for the money,power trippers or think they know it all and that's without mentioning those with insufficient experience/training.
Most the carers I've dealt with need monitoring a hell of a lot more than they are and this should preferably be done by family member or guardian of the service user.

What Fra is asking is wouldn't it be better to have a live in companion who could help with the caring in return for accommodation?
And the answer has to be Yes it would.....as long as the issues around what duties are carried out by the live in companion, that these were mutually agreed and documented in a legal style contract.
It has to be better for older people to be cared for by someone in their own home on a 'live in' basis than for the elderly person to go into a care home.....and this could be less expensive.
You just have to find the right person. Someone who can get along with the older person.
I know if I were widowed and on my own I would rather live alongside someone, do the cooking, shopping and the housework for two.....especially if it meant my living costs were reduced by having my accommodation provided.

As for other options for home care....well, they are abysmal.....and you are right about those employed to provide the care.They are (in the main) slap dash and only doing it for the money.
This is because they don't get enough time to form bonds with those who they are caring for.
Forming bonds means that you actually do 'care' about the person for whom you are undertaking personal tasks.......and that is the difference.

[Accyexplorer]

I am only speaking from my experience with carers,I'm not saying they are all incompetent.Live in care would probably be done in shifts 3-4wks on an a wk or so off (this can also hold its own problems as they often only have notes to go off to provide care).
Cost would probably be £70+ a day plus agency fees of £70+ for finding a (allegedly) vetted,qualified live in carer.
I really hope you find a suitable set of carers for your family member,they deserve the best at this crucial time in their life.

You can often judge a person by the way they treat a elderly person,there is a saying that goes something like:-

It's easy to care for children etc,even politicians can care for a child but a true judge of character is how that person treats the elderly,elderly are the true foundations of society (don't quote me on that)....


...I wish you all the best in your search

[Accyexplorer]

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

What Fra is asking is wouldn't it be better to have a live in companion who could help with the caring in return for accommodation?
And the answer has to be Yes it would.....as long as the issues around what duties are carried out by the live in companion, that these were mutually agreed and documented in a legal style contract.
It has to be better for older people to be cared for by someone in their own home on a 'live in' basis than for the elderly person to go into a care home.....and this could be less expensive.
You just have to find the right person. Someone who can get along with the older person.
I know if I were widowed and on my own I would rather live alongside someone, do the cooking, shopping and the housework for two.....especially if it meant my living costs were reduced by having my accommodation provided.

As for other options for home care....well, they are abysmal.....and you are right about those employed to provide the care.They are (in the main) slap dash and only doing it for the money.
This is because they don't get enough time to form bonds with those who they are caring for.
Forming bonds means that you actually do 'care' about the person for whom you are undertaking personal tasks.......and that is the difference.

In the main I'd have to agree M,I'd personally prefer to have a companion (live in) than go into care.
But unless that bond is water tight it's open to a whole array of problems.
I personally can't see how one person living and caring for a elderly person in return for accommodation can be done without great issues arising.

[Margaret Pilkington]

Yes, that is exactly what I have been saying from the outset.....it can be done, but it has to be done with extreme care and with the perspective on the nature of the issues which can arise.....some of which I have outlined in an earlier post.
I know it can be done successfully because an elderly aunt of mine did exactly this.....she and her companion became firm friends.
They lived in companionship for more than 10 years....and the companion died first.....and my aunt was not long behind her having lived a miserable existence in a residential home(and I use the term 'home' in the loosest sense of the word)for the last months of her life.

The reason the situation worked well was that my aunt maintained a lot of independence....she continued to do what she could in the house.....The two old ladies went out shopping together, the arrangement was a partnership of equals....they did stuff together and it gave my aunt a new lease of life.
Where these two old ladies could have lived a miserable and lonely existence, they lived companionably, had someone to talk to, grumble to and they kept one another going.
But.....and it is a big but, it doesn't work for everyone.

[Sunflower49]

It wouldn't work for everyone, does anything?

But for those for whom it would, I think It's a great idea. I've been doing basically this, but only part of the week, for my Grandmother, recently.

I think a lot of mainstream 'care' neglects the fact that physical, practical 'care' is obviously very important but, is only a part of what helps elderly or disadvantaged people live as fulfilling a life as possible. I suspect many would benefit hugely from having someone around to share conversations and moments with (and yes, grumble with!), even just some of the time having company, knowing somebody is there or will soon be there can be a great mental lift.

For those being the 'carer' or 'help', as Margaret says it is potentially quite risky. But I suppose It's comparable with a few other positions with which accommodation is part of the contract (pub/hotel manager?). There are worse positions to be in and if it was a set amount of hours per week said person could also do paid work outside of their caring role.

[skuta]

Originally Posted by Accyexplorer

Personally,I think it sounds like a recipe for disaster.
I don't believe half of the carers I've seen should be doing any sort of care work.
They seem to be either just in it for the money,power trippers or think they know it all and that's without mentioning those with insufficient experience/training.
Most the carers I've dealt with need monitoring a hell of a lot more than they are and this should preferably be done by family member or guardian of the service user.

Completely agree with you. My recent experience of "carers" following my stroke has been utterly dreadful. Standards these days are abysmal. You would NOT place your loved ones in the care of these people if you knew what really happens. I laugh how everybody suddenly thinks of the elderly. They don't. They could not care less. Failure, like their demonstrated poor academic track record, for these people is still considered a result. Common-sense and paying attention is non-existent. At least they showed up. Yes, you can pick up pretty quick the ones in it for the money and really don't care at all. They are usually completely untrained and NEVER read your Care Plan. Instead they lazily asked me what to do. As if I am competent as a person with a severe brain injury to train them how to do everything and be burdened with remembering everything that's required. They are also very good at lying. I've been told some total gibberish by carers that is self-evidently nonsense. They are very inconsistent because they only do (if they do), what they want, when they feel like it. This changes all the time as staff change. This has played havoc with my stroke recovery. Along with their Employers constantly changing staff by sending new people who know nothing about me or what to do. It took them long enough to learn how to use my KeySafe to let themselves in. They clearly missed the point of such a device and knocked on my door at random times early in the morning. Thanks halfwits for wrecking my sleep pattern! Most carers don't even know or understand that I've had a stroke and are potentially in danger from outbursts and lashing out caused by my brain disturbance. I could go on...

[Margaret Pilkington]

I think it is very easy to condemn carers.
It is a job that no-one in their right mind would want to do for the money they are paid.
What you pay to the care agency does not find its way into their pockets.

Reputable care agencies will promote education in their staff (NVQ's and the like) because they know that this leads to better user satisfaction....and is also advantageous to the carer too.

Also a good care agency will have some kind of protocols in place to ensure that care records are maintained and up to date...for reasons of health and safety.
A good care record will also tell those coming into your home, what is needed.

The only carers who really care are those who have some kind of personal investment with the person they are caring for...and the fact that many people needing care get someone different every time there is a visit means that personal bonds are rarely formed to the extent that there is real 'care'.
We do not (as a society) value the elderly, and we do not value those who care for the elderly.

In my time I have been a nurse(30 yrs) and I have looked after a number of elderly(infirm) neighbours and my dear old Ma...not for money or personal gain, but because I really did care about them.
You can only truly care if you have the bond and the committment

[skuta]

Originally Posted by Accyexplorer

Personally,I think it sounds like a recipe for disaster.
I don't believe half of the carers I've seen should be doing any sort of care work.
They seem to be either just in it for the money,power trippers or think they know it all and that's without mentioning those with insufficient experience/training.
Most the carers I've dealt with need monitoring a hell of a lot more than they are and this should preferably be done by family member or guardian of the service user.

Too right. In my recent direct experience a lot of so-called "Carers" should be nowhere near frail or vulnerable people. They often do more harm than good.

You're right about the money angle too. The conversations often went along the Themes of Bank/Agency Work or when the next break is. Never about policies, procedures, best-practice & techniques etc. Certainly never about what's best for a Patient.

The worst for this are Night Staff who get paid a little more. Bank Nurses are often dreadful too because they are the people working extra shifts for the money only, not because they really like helping folk.

I could go on, I won't, it'll turn into a scary Novel.