Air Rifles!

[Michael1954]

Neil, you had a gun at 15. What did you use it for?

[Retlaw]

Originally Posted by Neil

You have no idea if he has total disregard for gun safety from what he has said.



That is utter rubbish.
Air weapons are no more powerful now than when I had my first one at 15 ish.
They may or may not be more accurate now, that depends on how good a shot you are as pre-charged tend to require less skill to shoot with good repeatability.

The legal limit for air weapons has been 6 ft/lbs for pistols and 12 ft/lbs for air rifles since at least 1969 without a firearms certificate as you state. Why you mention many of them require a firearm certificate I dont know as that applies to other rifles, shotguns, hand guns etc

I have two old air rifles, one is a 1937 BSA copy of the Lincoln Jefferies in .177 the other is a Webly & Scott, with interchangable .177 & .22, I've fired them many times over a Chronoscope, with different pellet weights, & neither of them is even 6 ftlbs.

Retlaw

[walkinman221]

Originally Posted by Neil

You have no idea if he has total disregard for gun safety from what he has said.



That is utter rubbish.
Air weapons are no more powerful now than when I had my first one at 15 ish.
They may or may not be more accurate now, that depends on how good a shot you are as pre-charged tend to require less skill to shoot with good repeatability.

The legal limit for air weapons has been 6 ft/lbs for pistols and 12 ft/lbs for air rifles since at least 1969 without a firearms certificate as you state. Why you mention many of them require a firearm certificate I dont know as that applies to other rifles, shotguns, hand guns etc

I didnt say many of them require a firearms cert , i said many modern air weapons are able to attain over the 12ftlb limit therefore making them subject to a firearms cert.Also modern air weapons can be more powerful than their older counterparts , due to better technology ie more air weapons using gas spring/rams. The advantages of the gas spring include the facility to keep the rifle cocked and ready to fire for long periods of time without harming the mechanism. Also, since there is no spring (and therefore a reduction in moving mass during firing) there is less although some say slightly sharper recoil. There is also an elimination of the associated problems of long-term spring fatigue and a faster "lock time" (the time between pulling the trigger and the pellet being discharged). The improvement in lock time makes for better accuracy since there is less time for the gun to move off target. Finally, gas springs are practically maintenance free and last longer than conventional metal springs. They can be tweaked or tuned, to up their power if you know whats what.Older or conventional spring powered air weapons have a practical upper limit of 1250 ft/s (380 m/s) for .177 cal (4.5 mm) pellets. Higher velocities cause unstable pellet flight and loss of accuracy. This is due to the shock wave generated as the super sonic pellet contacts the air. Shortly after leaving the barrel, the pellet falls below the speed of sound and the shock wave overtakes the pellet, causing it to tumble. And as for his disregard for gun safety any post with the words carefree and weapons in it makes me worry sorry.

[Retlaw]

Originally Posted by walkinman221

They can be tweaked or tuned, to up their power if you know whats what.Older or conventional spring powered air weapons have a practical upper limit of 1250 ft/s (380 m/s) for .177 cal (4.5 mm) pellets. Higher velocities cause unstable pellet flight and loss of accuracy. This is due to the shock wave generated as the super sonic pellet contacts the air. Shortly after leaving the barrel, the pellet falls below the speed of sound and the shock wave overtakes the pellet, causing it to tumble. And as for his disregard for gun safety any post with the words carefree and weapons in it makes me worry sorry.

.177 pellets could not be driven down a barrel at those speeds, the contact between the pellet, and the rifling lands is so small an area, that the pellet would strip the rifling, you would need a completely different pellet profile, and rifleing twist in an air rifle to attains those speeds, and maintain any reasonable accuracy.
Properly profiled bullets with a ballistic co-efficiency below .4, can be driven a speeds in excess of 3000 ft per sec, in a 1/10 twist, and still be acurate at well over 1200 yards, even after they've gone sub sonic
Retlaw

[kestrelx]

Originally Posted by Boeing Guy

So let me get this right.... You miss being able to carry a Air Weapon in public, loaded or otherwise. You would like to be able to grow your own cannabis and the goverment is out to get us, anyone who challenges you is part of the 'accyweb maffya'.

If you ask me, or any right thinking person, it looks like successive Goverments have made the right decisions.
If you wish to carry a gun in public, why don't you move to the USA on of he southern states would be best.

It wasn't me who first said "Accyweb Mafia" it was a poster called Tommiasfc and then Mr D who pointed out that Garinda and some others were slagging him off without knowing who he was - this was on the "illegal drugs" thread!

Back in 75 when I had a .22 I never even thought about the law and the law never even paid us any attention, even though I used to use it in public places with other members of the public around! I am not making any big statement about the law being wrong these days! What I am saying is that back then the law didn't give a damn about air guns (unless of course someone went into Woolworths with one) but generally it wasn't against the law to use one in your back yard! Going out with an airgun was a pass time on parr with having a kick around with a football!

[kestrelx]

Originally Posted by Michael1954

Neil, you had a gun at 15. What did you use it for?

I had one when I was 15, we used to try to shoot rats, tin cans and targets and so on.

[Boeing Guy]

Originally Posted by kestrelx

What I am saying is that back then the law didn't give a damn about air guns (unless of course someone went into Woolworths with one) but generally it wasn't against the law to use one in your back yard! [/B]

I was going to write a long rebuttal, but I cannot be bothered.

[walkinman221]

Originally Posted by Retlaw

.177 pellets could not be driven down a barrel at those speeds, the contact between the pellet, and the rifling lands is so small an area, that the pellet would strip the rifling, you would need a completely different pellet profile, and rifleing twist in an air rifle to attains those speeds, and maintain any reasonable accuracy.
Properly profiled bullets with a ballistic co-efficiency below .4, can be driven a speeds in excess of 3000 ft per sec, in a 1/10 twist, and still be acurate at well over 1200 yards, even after they've gone sub sonic
Retlaw

I dont really understand how a much softer lead pellet would strip the rifling from the barrel , most shooters of air weapons find a 800–900 ft/s (240–270 m/s) range offers an ideal balance between power and pellet stability. The 1250ft/s stated is an upper limit where really is accuracy is greatly depleted so it is not practical.

[Neil]

Originally Posted by Michael1954

Neil, you had a gun at 15. What did you use it for?

Paper and field targets (metal targets that fall down when you hit a circle on them). I was a member of a club for a while.

[Less]

Like any weapon, an air rifle has to be handled responsibly, the laws are in place not so much as to restrict their use, more to keep the public safe.
A responsible user doesn't need to carry a loaded air rifle in public only an idiot would want to do such a thing.

[kestrelx]

Originally Posted by Boeing Guy

I was going to write a long rebuttal, but I cannot be bothered.

There is nothing to Rebut!!! (except if you want to be argumentative!?) Fact is in the 70's the Police didn't give a jott about air rifles unless there was an obvious incident with one, like a deliberate wounding with one! But if you were walking round a football pitch shooting tin cans they would not intervene! These days you'd proably get a rapid response arms unit on the scene within 10 mins!

[***Mr D***]

Had pistols & rifles in the past.

I can understand the laws to a point (Like Less says), but Im sure I could go and buy a black widow catapult some metal ball bearings and cause more damage/harm with one of these.

[Retlaw]

Originally Posted by walkinman221

I dont really understand how a much softer lead pellet would strip the rifling from the barrel , most shooters of air weapons find a 800–900 ft/s (240–270 m/s) range offers an ideal balance between power and pellet stability. The 1250ft/s stated is an upper limit where really is accuracy is greatly depleted so it is not practical.

Its becase of the pellet profile, and the fact that it is soft lead, is the reason it will strip & not grip the rifleing, The fastest speed I have ever driven a hard lead .303 bullet was 1600 ft p sec, even though they had the same profile as a jacketed bullet, they would strip the bore, yet the same bullets resized to .308 fired in a 7.62, attained a speed of over 1800 ft p sec, same bullet weight & powder charge, interior balistics experiments with different lead hardnesses, shows that soft lead pellets or bullets, in .177 or .22, will not perform at the speed you quoted.
Retlaw.

[kestrelx]

Originally Posted by Less

Like any weapon, an air rifle has to be handled responsibly, the laws are in place not so much as to restrict their use, more to keep the public safe.
A responsible user doesn't need to carry a loaded air rifle in public only an idiot would want to do such a thing.

Well over the years there have been more and more idiots using them for crime which I don't think happned as much in the 70's. Also I think they are more powerful these days than they were then.

The issue is in the 70's you could carry one in a park and shoot it and not get pulled over by the Police also you could shoot them in a small garden or yard - today the law says you can't shoot one unless you are 100metres away from a publc place and have permission in writing to shoot it at that place; unless you own the property!

About 5 years ago some idiot was shooting one at a children's playground from a block of flats over a period of time and the Police couldn't detect where it was coming from - it's obvious this kind of behaviour is what has tightened up the laws!

[annesingleton]

My daughter's friend lost an eye when she was in her early teens because of someone firing an air rifle.
Kestrelx the more I hear from you the more concerned I become.