The Pen Is Mightier Than The Sword

[Less]

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

How very sad Less. I enjoyed most of my school life(well except for sport and netball).

Ah, netball, one of my fondest school time memories, like yourself sport didn't interest me except swimming, so I'd do anything to get out of football, sorry sir forgot my kit, sorry sir can't play today my sister is on her period, any excuse not to play.

Now the gym teacher and music teacher mentioned earlier hatched a plan, I and another lad turned up yet again without football kit, he marched us over to the netball court where the music teacher (part time gym mistress) was teaching the girls.
We two were told if you won't play football you'll do netball with the girls, they thought this would be humiliating to us, oh how wrong they were, two lads going through puberty being attacked by girls! We were in heaven, the following week the teachers abandoned that idea when nine more lads had erm' forgotten their football gear after we had told them the joy we had been put through.

[Margaret Pilkington]

I was once taken to task by our gym mistress(who just happened to be the wife of Jim Bowen) for not knowing which bit of the court I should have been in. I threw the ball at her stormed off the court and sulkily told her that I preferred Maths with Mr Suthers to games with her. The truth was that I was scared witless of Milton Suthers and I was to maths what Arthur Scargill is to,opera singing.
Anyway she marched me to his classroom and told him that from now on when the rest of my year were doing games. I would present myself to the Maths class.
I think that is called shooting yourself in the foot.

[Rowlf]

Be careful what you wish for Margaret. Milton Suthers was born and brought up in Hapton like me. (Well I was born at Roughlee actually) I certainly remember the pens dipped in ink wells. They were the only pens we used at Peel Park and at the High School only fountain pens were allowed. I had a lovely maroon Parker one. I had a few good hidings at Peel Park from Mr Gleaves who used his flat hand but if a boy was smacked he used his PE pump. I also got slapped on my legs with two rulers by the head master Mr Hinchcliffe. That was not as bad as getting a slap on my leg with a wet hand from my mum. That really smarted. None of it did me any harm though. I have seen a blackboard cleaner thrown a few times .

[MargaretR]

I learned to write using chalk on a slate

[Margaret Pilkington]

Originally Posted by Rowlf

Be careful what you wish for Margaret. Milton Suthers was born and brought up in Hapton like me. (Well I was born at Roughlee actually) I certainly remember the pens dipped in ink wells. They were the only pens we used at Peel Park and at the High School only fountain pens were allowed. I had a lovely maroon Parker one. I had a few good hidings at Peel Park from Mr Gleaves who used his flat hand but if a boy was smacked he used his PE pump. I also got slapped on my legs with two rulers by the head master Mr Hinchcliffe. That was not as bad as getting a slap on my leg with a wet hand from my mum. That really smarted. None of it did me any harm though. I have seen a blackboard cleaner thrown a few times .

Milton Suthers scared me witless for all the time I was at secondary school..He looked like the old bearded king on the pennies and had a fearsome glower.
His classes were in the main very well behaved as he would rule with black looks and a badly aimed board duster(I believe it was badly aimed on purpose because the power with which it was thrown could have taken your head off).

I remember Mr Gleave and his 'slipper'....Mr Hinchcliffe too....the more sedate Miss Butterworth(who despite looking meek and mild had good control over her classes).
In fact on the whole my schooldays were something to look back on with pleasure.

Children back then seemed to be more compliant, less aggressive, maybe even less assured.
Today's children are a different breed altogether.
Discipline in schools back then was more defined, easier to manage and parents seemed to accept that if their little darling(were there any little darlings back the?) was chastised, it was for a valid reason.

[kestrelx]

Physical punishment doesn't really work - it may deter someone who is not generally a trouble maker and makes one mistake and a few wacks put them right - but for many more it didn't make one iota of a difference if they were physically punished. In fact many trouble makers I witnessed standing out side the headmasters office at school thought they were big getting the cane, so it didn't deter them from their dodgy ways.

[Rowlf]

It might not have worked in every instance but the alternative certainly has not worked as is obvious in the behaviour of today's school children. In 'our day' pupils were far better behaved and did not answer back or disrupt as is often the case now. As Margaret so rightly said parents were unlikely to go charging into the school throwing their weight about because their child had been chastised. In many cases these days the parents are worse than the children. The mamby pamby approach does not work either.

[Margaret Pilkington]

Rowlf, you took the words right out of my mouth.
Way back then the classes were more disciplined and there was less disruption. Which meant that our learning had a level of continuity that perhaps is a little lacking today.
Corporal punishment meant that you were made aware that your actions had consequences.....and if you do not learn that early then you are not going to do very well in your life.

[cashman]

Its all about respect, if a kid has no respect, then they have learnt that off their parents, far as i'm concerned.!!

[Less]

Originally Posted by Rowlf

It might not have worked in every instance but the alternative certainly has not worked as is obvious in the behaviour of today's school children. In 'our day' pupils were far better behaved and did not answer back or disrupt as is often the case now. As Margaret so rightly said parents were unlikely to go charging into the school throwing their weight about because their child had been chastised. In many cases these days the parents are worse than the children. The mamby pamby approach does not work either.

In 'our day' were pupils better behaved?

I have several Grandkids in school, they behave very well thank you, if anything they look forward to going in, I however found school a threat, not because I'd actually done anything wrong, nor was I likely to, but because the low standard of bullying teachers encouraged bullying within the pupils themselves.

[Margaret Pilkington]

Of course not all children are badly behaved....and it would be wrong to imply that they are.
But there are some children who get no discipline at home and when teachers try to control the class these children are less easy to get compliance from....because they don't have boundaries at home they cannot see any reason to adhere to boundaries set by school.
We saw this recently in a news item about a young girl who went to school with Beyoncé type braids, despite this being against the school rule.
Rules that are clearly explained before the children start school.
Now what difference does it make that this girl has fashionable braids? Does it stop her from learning? No of course it doesn't, but it IS against school rules.
What does the girls father do....
He berates the school for excluding his girl.
Now when this child leaves school and enters the world of work, she will be required to follow rules and regulations within the workplace.
She will find this difficult as she feels she should be able to do as she pleases.

School is the foundation which equips us for life in the working world...or that is the theory.

[Rowlf]

I did not imply that ALL children are badly behaved. My own grandson is well mannered and polite and certainly does not disrupt in class but as Cashman rightly says the manners and respect should be learnt at home. It should not be up to teachers to teach those things. It is however a sad fact that these days there are more bad mannered and unruly children than there used to be. A lot of parents these days do not take the trouble to teach good manners or to respect other people or their property. Fewer children say 'Please' and 'Thank you' , to me an essential lesson from a very young age.

[cashman]

All i can go off is me own life, The day i started school, i had at least the basics of respect, "Don't talk back to yer elders" give yer seat up on bus to elderly, and various stuff like that, summat my parents had instilled in me.and remember we started at 4 years old back then, now parents have till the kids are 5, but many dont bother teaching such stuff, its very little to do with teachers in my view, the basic stuff SHOULD be taught before a kid goes to school.

[MoreJoe]

The Happiest Days of our Lives (Roger Waters)

When we grew up and went to school
There were certain teachers who would
Hurt the children in any way they could

"OOF!" [someone being hit]

By pouring their derision
Upon anything we did
And exposing every weakness
However carefully hidden by the kids
But in the town, it was well known
When they got home at night, their fat and
Psychopathic wives would thrash them
Within inches of their lives.

[Eric]

Originally Posted by MargaretR

I learned to write using chalk on a slate

I had a slate with a slate pencil ... I think that's what they called 'em.

By the way, for those interested: "The Oxford Book of Schooldays," Patricia Craig.