Ubuntu 8.04 - Page 2

Neil · 08-12-2008, 13:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by entwisi

Err, I'm pretty sure Powerpoint is compatible to some degree, Access has no direct comparison but BTH who would want a compatible as its a damned awful DB.

However, if you do some serious stuff in spreedsheets you usually end up using VBA( Visual Basic for Applications ) to some degree which isn't compatible in OO.

Then you get that age old fly in the ointment that is Publisher, why anyone uses it is a complete mystery to me as hardly anyone you want to send the files to has it and its not easy to convert to any other format. It wouldn't be so bad if there was a Publisher viewer like there is a powerpoint viewer.

All good points Ian and why I believe Linux will not take off at home until it starts to be more mainstream in the workplace. When that happens schools will start to use it and so kids will need it at home. That will be years of in my opinion - if ever.

entwisi · 08-12-2008, 14:01

TBH Even in the business world that I see on a daily basis, few people (apart from a few geeks aside) have any knowledge on how to use ANY Office software 'properly'.

e.g.

people who think that carriage returns and spaces should be used to pad things out

Page breaks are a thing of wonder

embedded objects are a mystical black art

I have yet to meet anyone else who understands how to use a pivot table

VBA is for geeks, it makes my life much easier and I'm often asked by self proclaimed spreadsheet gurus "how do you do that!"

for everyday peole Open Office is absolutely fine.

Inetrtia is the key here and the more eeePCs out there the better.

Neil · 08-12-2008, 14:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by entwisi

Inetrtia is the key here and the more eeePCs out there the better.

Especially ones running Windows XP

I quite fancy a Samsung NC10, with Xp of course. I think I would dual boot it with Linux as it would be a good excuse to learn about Linux and I do feel the need to.

The kevolution · 08-12-2008, 18:58

I run Ubuntu on my computer whilst my wife runs Windows on hers. She may mock the fact it takes me a little longer to get it started up but once the two are running it's no competition.

The point made about Powerpoint is a good one, because that piece of software is one of the few that Microsoft can legitimately claim to be ahead of the curve on. I all other respects OpenOffice holds up more than adequately, as do a number of other alternatives.

I do a lot of audio work on our machines, and having Audacity able to run of Windows and Linux makes life very easy for me, mainly because the audio hardware in the wife's computer is a bit better than mine.

Whilst photoshop has become a standard in the same way as Office (i.e. not always the best but the one that crops up the most) there are good alternatives out there and to be honest GIMP doesn't take a lot of effort to learn (I genuinely find it much easier to work with than photoshop).

However what worries me is this statement...

Quote:

Even when I explained that his school use Windows XP and Microsoft Office 2003 he still said it was a good machine for his homework. I told him that he would be learning with one application at school then have to learn another one at home - talk about a blinkered Linux biased opinion.

So, we should be teaching our children specifically to use one OS and one piece of software for every job? I've taught IT and suggested a number of Open-Source / Freeware alternatives to software that parents would otherwise have to buy and the parents loved me for it whilst the kids adapted quickly. We were a hairs breadth away from installing Linux on the school network as well (held up only by an IT Tech who didn't want to leave the comfort zone).

I've grown up with computers, we were taught not just on BBC compatibles at school but also Spectrums and Commodores. That should continue today and wherever possible kids should be encouraged to use a variety of different systems.

For the record, I'm no Windows hater. Whilst I may dislike some of MS's practices I use Windows, Linux and Mac OS happily both on a personal and professional level and use Ubuntu at home because I consider it to be the most stable and effective solution for my needs. If I was a big gamer though, I'd choose Windows for obvious reasons.

Neil · 08-12-2008, 19:07

i would have no problem with my kids learning several os's but when they use windows only at school i think it is essential at home
Posted via Mobile Device

The kevolution · 08-12-2008, 19:17

As long as there is format portability it genuinely seemed to make very little difference to most. The less abled kids were usually able to operate alternative systems to exactly the same level whilst the more technically-minded kids enjoyed having something new to find the ins and outs of.

That of course, is just my experience and I in no way want to insist that this is the case with everyone.

SamF · 08-12-2008, 19:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neil

i would have no problem with my kids learning several os's but when they use windows only at school i think it is essential at home
Posted via Mobile Device

Why ?

Neil · 08-12-2008, 20:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by SamF

Why ?

So they can carry on learning what they are taught at school at home. I would not make my kids do maths equations the way I was taught if their teacher wants them to do it another way, I will help them do it the way the teacher shows them.

Same goes for PC's and applications IMHO.

Are you a Linux freak?

The kevolution · 08-12-2008, 20:17

Hypothetically... if this meant that they were taught spreadsheets using a top-end professional package rather than Excel, would you upgrade to that?

You are right not to contradict their teacher, but that doesn't mean you cannot expand their learning. That's like preventing a child learning about WWI because their teacher is delivering lessons on the industrial revolution. Again as a teacher I am thrilled to bits when a kid turns up having learned something outside of the syllabus and that challenges me to keep them as interested as the rest of the class.

Neil · 08-12-2008, 20:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by The kevolution

Hypothetically... if this meant that they were taught spreadsheets using a top-end professional package rather than Excel, would you upgrade to that?

You are right not to contradict their teacher, but that doesn't mean you cannot expand their learning. That's like preventing a child learning about WWI because their teacher is delivering lessons on the industrial revolution. Again as a teacher I am thrilled to bits when a kid turns up having learned something outside of the syllabus and that challenges me to keep them as interested as the rest of the class.

Yes.

I never said I would prevent them learning. I said it would be cool for them to learn several OS's. What I said was if they use Windows at school I think it is needed at home. It ok to have OS's as well but it would be a touch unfair if they could not practice at home what they are taught at school.

SamF · 09-12-2008, 01:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neil

So they can carry on learning what they are taught at school at home. I would not make my kids do maths equations the way I was taught if their teacher wants them to do it another way, I will help them do it the way the teacher shows them.

Same goes for PC's and applications IMHO.

Are you a Linux freak?

The difference being there is justification behind the school choosing to teach a different equation than the one that you were taught and there are no benefits from a broader range of knowledge in the area of maths equations - being comfortable using different brands of the same type of software may well prove invaluable for your child in the future.

And no.

Neil · 09-12-2008, 01:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by SamF

being comfortable using different brands of the same type of software may well prove invaluable for your child in the future.

Yes it might but given that school time is short and that almost no businesses use Linux as a desktop operating system it could be seen as a waste of time.

entwisi · 09-12-2008, 09:25

you seem to be discussing something that in reality should have no bearing. The underlying OS should not 'taint' the user interface or its doing too much. Open Office looks and works exactly like Openoffice( and MS Office in all but a few buttons) on all platforms, similarly browsers, email clients, image editing software.

The whole point is that you can sit a "Windows" child at a Linux desktop and they will be just as productive. In fact I'd argue its us old fogeys who would be less likely to cope as adults are far less open to change than children

entwisi · 11-12-2008, 15:48

Heh, just found this on one of my regular haunts. OK its merkinland but it does show the sort of struggle we face.

http://linuxlock.blogspot.com/2008/1...kids-back.html

mattylad · 11-12-2008, 16:06

The thing is, if for instance you try & tell a child how to do a maths sum, but your using a different method to the one they have been taught, they child will get extremely upset trying to say that they must do it the same way (well all mine did).

So by using a different OS & different packages to those thatthey use at school, things are going to be different. I.E. Word2007 at school & openoffice3 at home, the files will be different as they are not 100% compatible, so some conversion will have to be done.
This takes up time that they have not got in class. It may also mean redoing some formatting.