Cup Replays Equal Fixture Pile-ups!

jambutty · 18-02-2007, 14:52

Once again we have some high profile managers complaining about the tactics of some teams (Blackburn) when involved in a cup match. Some even field a ‘weaker’ team (Man U) against perceived lesser opposition and come unstuck when a draw is the result. They do this to conserve their ‘better’ players for a forthcoming important match. Strange, but I thought that all matches were important. Then they complain about a fixture pile up and the effect it would have and vaguely suggest that a cup-tie should be a one off affair.

In response to some of these complaints a Peter Scott of SR2 in a letter to ITV’s Teletext Sports Letters Page today (ITV1 Page 546) broached the idea that if all cup-ties are to be settled in just the one game the match should be played on a neutral ground. Not an unreasonable suggestion! In fact I think that it is a splendid idea.

In years gone by the final and semi finals would go to not just one replay but several if the need arose, until a result was achieved. I’m not suggesting that we go back to those days but I find the idea of a one of match at a neutral ground for all cup-ties intriguing.

Well the final and semi finals in the FA cup are one off affairs these days so why didn’t the FA think just a little bit outside the box when the change was introduced?

First of all it would probably encourage managers to play their ‘first’ team when facing what is seen as lesser opposition. Secondly the one off match would produce a result after 90 minutes plus extra time plus penalties and thus alleviate a possible fixture pile up.

I don’t suppose that the supporters would be too keen on having to travel to a neutral ground for a cup match but in the event of a draw they would have to travel to the opposition’s ground if they wanted to support the their team. However with proper organisation and financial help from the FA it could be done if the will was there.

lancsdave · 18-02-2007, 15:04

They should leave our game alone. Sick to death of one or two jumped up trainers thinking they should dictate our national sport. If they don't like it then get the hell out of it.

mthead · 18-02-2007, 15:21

Yes Sir Alex did field a weaker team but so did Steve Coppell,so no real excuse there,I also can't blame Sir Alex with the Champions league game against Lille on tuesday night,its just he could have done without the replay.As for neutral gronds for all cup ties this wouldn't work due to the police,it will be nearly impossible to make sure rival fans are not playing near each other e.g. Blacburn, Burnley. Preston, Blackpool.Man.Utd,Man.City etc etc.I just dont think it would work although in theory it does sound good.

jambutty · 18-02-2007, 16:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by lancsdave

They should leave our game alone. Sick to death of one or two jumped up trainers thinking they should dictate our national sport. If they don't like it then get the hell out of it.

Wow! Such venom!

Just who are these ‘jumped up trainers’ that you claim are dictating our national sport?

jambutty · 18-02-2007, 16:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by mthead

Yes Sir Alex did field a weaker team but so did Steve Coppell,so no real excuse there,I also can't blame Sir Alex with the Champions league game against Lille on tuesday night,its just he could have done without the replay.As for neutral gronds for all cup ties this wouldn't work due to the police,it will be nearly impossible to make sure rival fans are not playing near each other e.g. Blacburn, Burnley. Preston, Blackpool.Man.Utd,Man.City etc etc.I just dont think it would work although in theory it does sound good.

Steve Coppell didn’t field a weaker team. He fielded the team that had got Reading that far as a reward for their efforts to date as he stated during an interview before the match began. It just happened not to be what some people would say was his stronger team. As it turned out his team selection was spot on, whereas Ferguson’s was not and now he has a replay to contend with. What’s the betting that the Man U team for that match will be his ‘first’ team? I’ll also bet that Steve Coppell will play the eleven that played at Old Trafford.

With a one off cup-tie the chances are that Man U would have fielded their strongest team knowing that it was just a one off chance to win. By fielding a ‘weaker’ team he was not paying the FA cup the proper respect.

Wouldn’t work because of the police? I’m not too sure what you mean. Surely problems are there to be solved not encouraged to grow. The two teams would play at a neutral venue if that venue’s team was also had a match in that round and of course that team would be ‘away’ at some other neutral venue.

If Blackburn were due to play Preston the match could be held at Bolton, whilst Bolton playing say Hartlepools could play at one of the Yorkshire grounds and so on. If Bolton were out of the cup then a different venue would have to be selected. There is no problem for the semi-finals. You often get a semi-final at Old Trafford when Man U are out of the cup or Hillsborough or Birmingham etc.

accymel · 18-02-2007, 16:56

Simply wouldnt work, not enough grounds to go around, also the amount of fixtures being played in leagues & other ties that to play it at a neutral ground would probably be more than hard work to organise & to sort for definate fixtures that required it as priority for use of grounds should be the league fixtures& teams fixtures in place nevermind another set of teams pinching yer ground! As for many teams the main priority is the league concentration everything else are bonuses. The great thing about the FA cup is that it gives smaller teams a chance of taking the big boys plus also the money generated which should be generated between the 2 teams playing. I think the FA cup should stay as it is, why fix something that ain't broken.

How often do u go to footy matches Jambutty??

jambutty · 18-02-2007, 17:21

Quote:

Simply wouldnt work, not enough grounds to go around,

How do you work that out accymel? If 500 teams enter into a knockout cup competition there have to be 500 grounds. As two teams play on one ground that leaves 250 grounds free.

Quote:

also the amount of fixtures being played in leagues & other ties that to play it at a neutral ground would probably be more than hard work to organise & to sort for definate fixtures that required it as priority for use of grounds should be the league fixtures& teams fixtures in place nevermind another set of teams pinching yer ground! As for many teams the main priority is the league concentration everything else are bonuses.

Eh?

As I already explained if two teams play at a neutral ground of another team still in the competition there is no problem. There is problem for Luddites though.

Quote:

The great thing about the FA cup is that it gives smaller teams a chance of taking the big boys plus also the money generated which should be generated between the 2 teams playing.

Very true but the ‘smaller’ teams will still play the ‘big boys’. How many smaller teams opted to use a neutral and larger venue just for the extra revenue that it would generate? It happens all the time.

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I think the FA cup should stay as it is, why fix something that ain't broken.

Fine so that’s your opinion, mine happens to be different. In any case who says it’s not broken?

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How often do u go to footy matches Jambutty??

What has that got to do with it?

accymel · 18-02-2007, 17:26

Fine JB that is my opinion & can say im not that far wrong either, ok to critise something or improve it when u have no idea on the subject matter anyhow as it seems. Going to footy gives u more an idea on how it works from ground level than sat comfy watching sky/bbc tv as an armchair supporter - hence i asked as your arguement is all hypothetical!

lancsdave · 18-02-2007, 17:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by jambutty

Wow! Such venom!

Just who are these ‘jumped up trainers’ that you claim are dictating our national sport?

Arsene Wenger is the first one on my list. It's okay for him to sit in his ivory tower suggesting our national game is structured but at the end of the day they make most of their money from the Champions League. ( Thats the competition where the non-champions outnumber the champions , strange concept

)

To a lot of clubs in the football league the revenue from an FA Cup match can provide finance for a full season. It's not just about playing on the piece of grass you normally play all your home matches it's about revenue from off pitch sources as well.

It's also about the supporters. The average man in the street is already being priced out of the game. Extra expense of attending neutral grounds in the early rounds is something lots wouldn't do, and therefore the clubs themselves wouldn't make as much money as they do now.

The police were mentioned earlier as being an objector and I have to agree with that. No way would they sanction 32 matches at neutral grounds in early January.

jambutty · 18-02-2007, 17:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by accymel

Fine JB that is my opinion & can say im not that far wrong either, ok to critise something or improve it when u have no idea on the subject matter anyhow as it seems. Going to footy gives u more an idea on how it works from ground level than sat comfy watching sky/bbc tv as an armchair supporter - hence i asked as your arguement is all hypothetical!

My - you are being presumptuous.

You know diddly squat about my football spectator credentials - yet you presume so much.

If you had read the opening post you should have noticed that it is not my argument but a suggestion put forward by Peter Scott SR2 in a letter to ITV’s Teletext Sports Letter page (546) that I happened to agree with and that it was worth looking at. I put my reasons forward why I agreed with they guy.

All you have done is voiced your objections and your reasons for them have been shot down in flames so, like so many other people on this forum, you make the issue personal.

It may have escaped your notice but all discussions on this forum are hypothetical because none of the contributors have any sway whatsoever on a topic.

mthead · 18-02-2007, 17:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by jambutty

Steve Coppell didn’t field a weaker team. He fielded the team that had got Reading that far as a reward for their efforts to date as he stated during an interview before the match began. It just happened not to be what some people would say was his stronger team. As it turned out his team selection was spot on, whereas Ferguson’s was not and now he has a replay to contend with. What’s the betting that the Man U team for that match will be his ‘first’ team? I’ll also bet that Steve Coppell will play the eleven that played at Old Trafford.

With a one off cup-tie the chances are that Man U would have fielded their strongest team knowing that it was just a one off chance to win. By fielding a ‘weaker’ team he was not paying the FA cup the proper respect.

Wouldn’t work because of the police? I’m not too sure what you mean.

What I was saying was Steve Coppell did not field the same 11 from the last few Premier matches,same with Fergie,He has kept basically the same 11 thruoghout the FA Cup campaigne which for these 2 teams in question has only lasted 3 games.The other comment is that various police forces up and down the country would not allow certain teansto play within a certain radius ofcertain rival teams.If Man U drew Bolton and Man City drew Blackburn try puting them in grounds were rival fans can't ge at one another,then god forbid but Burnley draw Blackpool with Preston getting Acc Stanley,all in the same round,you have to allow for things like that happening.THats all I meant

accymel · 18-02-2007, 17:55

Mmmmm JB really!!

So how exactly is having neutral grounds for FA cup matches going to benefit the playing clubs exactly ???? more to the point how is this going to be arranged with he 'neutral ground club' to arrange this fixture?? Not always the case that smaller clubs will get more money if played on a bigger neutral ground - that has got to be within distance or equal distance of both teams concerned??? Also pricing on tickets for entry to grounds vary vastly so how will that be fairly adapted & not always the case that the fixture will fill the ground??? [prime example man u versus reading - mmm ground wernt packed out

] I can see a lot of problems as with sods law of footy is that like of recent weather conditions many games were called off & had to be re arranged which vreates backlog - regardless of league status!! Also the simple fact that u say is that the teams out of the cup will be able to be host ground for the FA fixture - sounds great but what about those teams fixture list - sorry far too much hassle & money wasted on organising it would make the FA more of a farse IMHO!!

Easy theorectically but in practice all leagues have their own problems to deal with without this on top!

Again primadonnaship is trying to take over quite literally & sorry it wont be at expence of lower leagues!!

accymel · 18-02-2007, 17:58

If all this is to stop rilvary between fans certainly derby grudge matches where poss trouble could occur this still wouldnt solve that problem anyway!!!

cmonstanley · 18-02-2007, 18:03

what do we think the great teams of the past did we should keep the game as it is and if they play weakened teams they should reimburse the fan if you pay to watch a team you should get the same team you seen the week before and if not we should go to trade and standrds commission and get our money back

sick opf death of murdoch foreign managers trying to dictate our national sport when england won the world cup they still had fa cup replays so why change them now its like moving the goalposts oohh weve got all these games but i want it easier tell wenger [winger] to do one if he dont like it do one its managers like him that are destroying the british game how many british players has he got in his youth system not very many

accymel · 18-02-2007, 18:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by jambutty

My - you are being presumptuous.

You know diddly squat about my football spectator credentials - yet you presume so much.

If you had read the opening post you should have noticed that it is not my argument but a suggestion put forward by Peter Scott SR2 in a letter to ITV’s Teletext Sports Letter page (546) that I happened to agree with and that it was worth looking at. I put my reasons forward why I agreed with they guy.

All you have done is voiced your objections and your reasons for them have been shot down in flames so, like so many other people on this forum, you make the issue personal.

It may have escaped your notice but all discussions on this forum are hypothetical because none of the contributors have any sway whatsoever on a topic.

JB get a life will ya!!! why do u presume everything is personal, i was commenting at the poor arguements u have with it, also to assume yourself that contributors to this discussion haven't any sway on this matter only simply means that u presume to be right above all else - so not really a disscussion either! I can say that the contributors to this thread so far are actually regulars to going to watch their teams in person to support them pitchside not sat there in armchair support!

So i ask again do u go to watch a footy match regularly?