ASSF response to The Dons programme notes ...

[expatriate]

Quite a few posts to be answered whilst i was away. I have two boys, and 18 month old, and a 4 year old, and their bath time waited on me, and then i put my youngest to bed. So apologies for the slight delay. i will deal with the questions that came whilst I was away in the order i see them on the bulletin board.

Willie - thanks for your first reply and also for the clarification. I note that there are two points to be addressed. Firstly, being open and available on any bulletin board carries a certain amount of risk, and one of them is to be open to being misunderstood. I apologise therefore if i misunderstood you. On your other point, about not understanding why someone would give away £250k as a "businessman" I can only repeat that my actions, not my words, should be judged. I have given away to many accrington causes in the past, and all for no gain or profit. God has been good to me and my family, and i am simply giving back to the community in as best a way as i can. Over the past couple of years alone, Moorhead school, accy cricket club, the ladies footy team and stanley are just some of the examples, and I hope to continue if possible. Perhaps its my way of saying thank you to a town that I love and to which I owe so much. Accrington was a lovely place to grow up. A lot of people still remember my mam and pa, and no matter what goes on, its home. I hope this is something you will understand.

this current spat with oneil was started on friday when he personally attacked me and lay himself open to this response. My intentions now are to be transparent and allow people to judge for themselves as facts emerge.

[Doug]

Originally Posted by Stanleymad

It does need love & affection Doug but also needs a chairman & co to know how to run a league club 1st & financially is foremost, something which has elluded our chairmen in our history!!

Madam..... I didn't say it didn't, what I said was:

"cash, love, affection and pride will not sustain Accrington Stanley alone; it needs to become a business first and it needs to be developed in partnership with the town. There is no shortage of Pride, Love or Affection, it’s in all of us now…..but the cash aspect is troubling, just how much will be needed to get us to that first stage, becoming a sustainable business and are you prepared to keep on donating funds until it can stand on it’s own two feet"


I may have miss read that Mel.......

[Willie Miller]

[quote=Stanleymad;748696]needs a chairman & co to know how to run a league club quote]

I would suggest that Eric knew how to run a League Club, because he did it for 3 years. Whether he did it well, that is for individuals to judge. But the staff that are still there know how to run a League Club...

What we need now is some one to run it better, to stop fans drifting away, to increase revenue, to increase media coverage, etc etc

[carpon]

One word that seems to keep cropping up in this thread and others is Transparency.

I fully appreciate that in this situation, we have two sides, supposedly fighting to help the same cause, The wolf that's baying at the door, in the form of the taxman / H.M.R.C.

Firstly, I commend Mr. Khan on his efforts to answer questions on this messageboard.

Sadly however it seems that the club does not appear to be as forthright in comming forward in keeping the fans informed of the events that are transpiring,or the true extent of the financial problem (s??) that threaten the very existense of our club.I'm not going to say what I think of what Mr. O' Neil posted in his programme notes,nor comment about the ASSF's response to the matter.

The only observation I would make on this matter, it's a little bit like two parties pulling a rope, in opposite directions. The result being we get no-where.

I'm concerned to point of, whilst the clock that is ticking towards the deadline day, when the taxman expects his money, the thermometer showing the fundraising efforts seems to have slowed to a trickle of money every couple of days....

At the present rate, If you take out of the equation the Burnley fundraiser which supposedly raised in the region of £40K, The money raised by other events, bucket collections, fundraising events etc, only equates to the same figure raised in nigh on 3 weeks. I always knew raising £308K in 8 weeks would be a somewhat gargantuan task relating to a club of our size, but if you do the maths...at present rate fundraising alone will not keep the wolf from the door.

Now is the time for "Transparency" so to speak. Both parties in this matter need to wake up, smell the roses and start pulling in the same direction. This wolf at the door will not go away, As it didn't in '62. It won't settle for part payment or excuses, It wants it's money, IN FULL..... or face the consequences. End of.

To Mr. Khan, I recall on a previous thread, that as a shareholder holding some sway on matters at boardroom level you had the power to instigate some sort of " extra-ordinary meeting " If that still is indeed the case, at what point do you plan to impose such a measure??? At this point what measure (s) will the ASSF push for..?

To the board....an appeal for common sense and the need for that elusive word " transparency" Don't keep us, the fans, the lifeblood of this club in the dark. Alienate the very people who help to pay the wages at the club and where does that get us???

[expatriate]

stanley mad. No problem with your questions. I am sure i would have the same issues if i were in your shoes. I hope some of the posts above have already clarified some of the points you raise. However, I would point out that the current mob in charge may well have a day to day control of management, but of course the cost has been huge. The club is on the point of disappearing. So the priority right now is to get cash into the club, not to worry about who will close the lights etc. However, I also know that all fans want clarity, and I simply restate that ASSF was set up precisely in order for the club to have continuity after the cash came on board. If you want, why not join the ASSF ? or go to the next meeting ? I dont pretend that they have all the people that will be needed, but the personnel are no worse than the current people in charge, and they are all loyal, long standing fans, with a professional background. If ASSF became a majority owner of the club, it will be in at least as safe hands in management terms as any time in the past. I reiterate, I wont be on the board or chairman. My interest, now as in the past, is to help provide cash if i have the means to do so.

By the way, my other fear is that the total debts are much more than £300k, so lets hope that others join in taking up shares through ASSF.

[Stanleymad]

[quote=Willie Miller;748701]

Originally Posted by Stanleymad

needs a chairman & co to know how to run a league club quote]

I would suggest that Eric knew how to run a League Club, because he did it for 3 years. Whether he did it well, that is for individuals to judge. But the staff that are still there know how to run a League Club...

What we need now is some one to run it better, to stop fans drifting away, to increase revenue, to increase media coverage, etc etc

If thats the case we wouldnt be in the mess we are in now Wages werent paid on time as werent other cheques & bills - the apparent deal with the taxman stems back to 2006 - whilst eric was in charge & now don is picking up the tab...or should rephase we are. Things have improved but then again still many people/customers levi-ing a critical view of the way the club was & still is to a point.

[expatriate]

nickleson, i think you have answered your own question. I really cant see a winding up order (I hope and pray i am not wrong) since the club's directors have no alternative but to accept financing in the event of their being no alternative. One way or 'tother, our club should not, and will not, go down !

[Stanleymad]

Originally Posted by Doug

Madam..... I didn't say it didn't, what I said was:

"cash, love, affection and pride will not sustain Accrington Stanley alone; it needs to become a business first and it needs to be developed in partnership with the town. There is no shortage of Pride, Love or Affection, it’s in all of us now…..but the cash aspect is troubling, just how much will be needed to get us to that first stage, becoming a sustainable business and are you prepared to keep on donating funds until it can stand on it’s own two feet"


I may have miss read that Mel.......

I didnt ....i was mearely adding to your point doug

[Stanleymad]

Originally Posted by expatriate

stanley mad. No problem with your questions. I am sure i would have the same issues if i were in your shoes. I hope some of the posts above have already clarified some of the points you raise. However, I would point out that the current mob in charge may well have a day to day control of management, but of course the cost has been huge. The club is on the point of disappearing. So the priority right now is to get cash into the club, not to worry about who will close the lights etc. However, I also know that all fans want clarity, and I simply restate that ASSF was set up precisely in order for the club to have continuity after the cash came on board. If you want, why not join the ASSF ? or go to the next meeting ? I dont pretend that they have all the people that will be needed, but the personnel are no worse than the current people in charge, and they are all loyal, long standing fans, with a professional background. If ASSF became a majority owner of the club, it will be in at least as safe hands in management terms as any time in the past. I reiterate, I wont be on the board or chairman. My interest, now as in the past, is to help provide cash if i have the means to do so.

By the way, my other fear is that the total debts are much more than £300k, so lets hope that others join in taking up shares through ASSF.

Thanks Ilyas i may do that should i be free when that meeting takes place & do admit i need to see both sides of the coin - tho to put it bluntly my bottom is firmly sat on the fence, holding onto to the hope that the club overcomes this & mass improvements are made, like the stuff im seeing on the ptich atm, i dont want to lose my team

[expatriate]

doug and bagpuss - in that order if i may.

doug, i am afraid stanley is not a business. It might well become one in due course, but for the past many years, and right now, its not. the biggest issue is that there is no budget for players. the main reason i keep banging on about a share issue is that it is the only way to ensure we have enough in the bank to give the manager some cash to buy players, and then, by being successful, attract crowds and sponsorship, to become bigger. i agree it SHOULD be a business, but right now, that is not the case. Of course, it can get more solvent, but it requires fresh and significant capital.

bagpuss - i have heard many things, and i would not be surprised to hear that mr whalley is still involved. however, right now, i dont care who is involved, i just want to avoid bankruptcy. I have, as you know, asked for transparency, and i do not know whaty oneil will not answer the simple question about the share transfer. You will recall in June he said that the transfer is "a matter of a few days". Well, we are still waiting. I am sure there is an answer, but i have not recieved one, neither has the club or the town.

[Willie Miller]

[quote=Stanleymad;748706]

Originally Posted by Willie Miller

If thats the case we wouldnt be in the mess we are in now Wages werent paid on time as werent other cheques & bills - the apparent deal with the taxman stems back to 2006 - whilst eric was in charge & now don is picking up the tab...or should rephase we are. Things have improved but then again still many people/customers levi-ing a critical view of the way the club was & still is to a point.

I understand that, but don't think anyone chose this as a fitting end to Stanley '68.... Other clubs are having similar problems since the recession, more will afterwards.

Remember, I still believe its falling gates & commercial income that got us here.... not Eric or Rob thinking "@@@@ it, lets not pay the tax man!"

Others may have different opinions; but had we say not conceded 3 against Hudders when 2 nil up, maybe we would have had another cup run circa 2004 & not been where we are now.

I still look on Eric as the man that put Stanley back on the map, not the big bad wolf. At least we now have a League team to SAVE not a Unibond one.....

[Stanleymad]

As the DDay approaches are u just waiting for the call or will u or assf be down there to stop the club folding should funds not be sufficient? whats your plans for the upcoming HMRC hearing ?

[Doug]

In respect of transparency I still don’t know who makes up the ASSF; what the Constitution is and how we can access information following meetings etc; if it wasn’t for two or three individuals feeding back to me I would be absolutely clueless.

Less than a couple of hours ago I was asking one of theses individuals if I can whole heartedly have faith in you Mr. Khan….he was overwhelmingly positive in that respect.

[Stanleymad]

Originally Posted by williemiller

I understand that, but don't think anyone chose this as a fitting end to Stanley '68.... Other clubs are having similar problems since the recession, more will afterwards.

Remember, I still believe its falling gates & commercial income that got us here.... not Eric or Rob thinking "@@@@ it, lets not pay the tax man!"

Others may have different opinions; but had we say not conceded 3 against Hudders when 2 nil up, maybe we would have had another cup run circa 2004 & not been where we are now.

I still look on Eric as the man that put Stanley back on the map, not the big bad wolf. At least we now have a League team to SAVE not a Unibond one.....

True i accept your good point willie i backed him 100% think he reached the highest he could go once we got to the league but unfortunately couldnt keep up with the difficulties of the league, just spiralled way out of control & was out of his depth. I suppose we can all talk with hindsight

[expatriate]

Carpon. Good Post. thank you for taking the time to be so clear. I think only one of your points remains to be answered. You ask about my being able to force the issue through board room action. The short answer is that I can call an EGM for all shareholders, but I am afraid the time for that is past. Right now, along with transparency we need cash, and the two go hand in hand. Oneil's statement that hmrc had never done a deal with the club was the first part in a process that will either unravel, or whereby oneil will raise capital - if not from assf, then others. There literally is no where to hide.

my coming onto this board is a direct result of the insults showered on me and assf by oneil in the public forum of the programme notes.