Coronovirus

andyd · 09-03-2020, 21:22

Sorry to be the one to bring this up but it's looking like it's only a matter of time before the government decides on banning large social gatherings, will this mean regarding EFL games being behind closed doors or suspending the season. I personally think if it happens it will be the first choice no spectators which unfortunately could shove some clubs to the abyis and potential oblivion.

ferret man · 09-03-2020, 22:05

This will affect season tickets

Twenty Eight · 10-03-2020, 08:39

Same for any commercial enterprise Andy.
However if appropriate Insurance is in place and as a consequence of the Government announcing this is a notifiable disease then compensation can be paid.
Do we have business interruption cover is the question.

Lord Didsbury · 10-03-2020, 10:19

if we go down the route of lockdown and enforced isolation, inc the cancelling of events, there will surely be untold financial misery for everyone and other unintended consequences across the world.

I'm not sure what's the best route? older people self isolating (eg, over 70s not going to games) is an option - daft as it might have sounded at one point. At least it keeps the rest of the world moving, but still leads to a lot of death over a longer period of time.
No isolation at all and accept we are going to see a lot of death in a shorter period of time and a swamped NHS but get it over with.
Total lockdown - might work like it appears to be working in china/korea, but still might not work, might just drag out the inevitable for years, might screw everything else up and no idea how long for.

It brings into play morality, the inevitability of death and disease, economics and, whether it's even OK to discuss some of the harder options given the huge backlash from virtue signallers.

Seems Andy Holt is firmly in favour of lockdown and cancelling games. Which is great that he does not seem guided by the personal short term financial situation. If everyone thinks beyond their own personal situation that's got to be good.

Anyway.... got to dash, I've got a trolley full of pasta and bog roll I've got to pay for.

Margaret Pilkington · 10-03-2020, 10:30

This is getting stupid.
There are over 60 million people in this country.....13,000 or more will dir from a dose of flu.
This does not hit the headlines.
Yet a few people die of Coronavirus(allegedly as all of them had underlying health conditions) and the media frenzy instil fear and panic into everybody.....or at least those who swallow what the media pump out.
Common sense, it seems, is not common....it should be labelled a super power.

Sensible precautions are the 'dish of the day'.....and stop the media from reporting on this and nothing else.
I am sick....sick of hearing about it....so I am going to,self isolate and listen to no news, read no crappy papers.....and my life will be better.

MikeA · 10-03-2020, 11:01

Andy's thoughts are clear from his Twitter postings. This is what he said on Radio 4:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m000g4ys

Start at 2:28:44.

Tom D · 10-03-2020, 21:01

Margaret - the comparisons to annual mortality for influenza and other conditions aren't really valid I'm afraid. The biggest issue is how contagious it is in comparison to most respiratory viral infections. It is approx 3 times more contagious than seasonal influenza on current estimates, but this is likely an underestimate based on figures from Italy. Most people won't get flu during a 'bad' flu year, but coronavirus may result in the majority of the public becoming infected, with a fairly high mortality rate in the elderly and those with chronic health conditions.

Lord D - stopping the elderly population going to games wouldn't be effective. If transmitted to a large population at games, it greatly increases the odds of transmission onto the general population including the elderly. Think of it as similar the herd community concept with vaccinations (just sort of in reverse).

Sorry but I think we may reach a point where large crowds are banned in the relatively near future.

I get being sick of the dramatic headlines in newspapers. The reality is in hospitals a LOT of contingency planning is currently taking place.

Margaret Pilkington · 10-03-2020, 22:37

I was not using it as a comparison per se(I am not saying anything about the transmission rates, just that seasonal flu kills, but rarely gets mentioned....so I hope that point is clear)...only using it as an example of the hyperbole employed by the media...the overkill, the language being used is the kind that is designed to whip up unrest and panic.
It is doing just that.

The experts are giving forth opinions....but really they know little about the situation (or how it will play out) it is mainly conjecture and looking at what has happened in other places.

It is looking a bit like this is a bio-engineered virus....make of that what you will.
I suppose the Extinction Rebellion crowd will be happy....fewer flights, fewer car journeys, a pruning of the population....Greta Thunberg might even have a smile on her face.

KiTChener · 10-03-2020, 23:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

..Greta Thunberg might even have a smile on her face.

Don’t think so, Margaret, she strikes me as being the youngest ever user of Botox!!

Tom D · 11-03-2020, 07:26

The conspiracy theory around it being bio engineered has been widely discredited.

Based on my experience, the knowledge basis for this virus is actually already pretty good, there's a reasonably large case series produced from China, Italy etc.

Man City vs Arsenal cancelled tonight, but more due to concerns over the players and other staff at the club, rather than the spectators. Playing games behind closed doors may not be possible either at this rate. Makes me wonder if this continues whether the season is declared void if fixtures aren't completed in a reasonable time.

Lord Didsbury · 11-03-2020, 08:43

I feel ever more convinced that lockdown isn’t going to work. China looks to be beating the virus, but as soon as it returns to normal what then?
Do we face months, years of life being **** with the same end result? The more I look at this the more I try to think of myself as a frail 85 year old. How do I want to live my last few years? Not in lockdown, not seeing my children facing financial ruin, not getting bad medical care because everyone is fighting the virus in vain.
Think I’d take my chances and hope that if CV gets me it will still be better than being kept alive in pain with some other disease.
No easy answers.

andyd · 11-03-2020, 08:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom D

The conspiracy theory around it being bio engineered has been widely discredited.

Based on my experience, the knowledge basis for this virus is actually already pretty good, there's a reasonably large case series produced from China, Italy etc.

Man City vs Arsenal cancelled tonight, but more due to concerns over the players and other staff at the club, rather than the spectators. Playing games behind closed doors may not be possible either at this rate. Makes me wonder if this continues whether the season is declared void if fixtures aren't completed in a reasonable time.

Italian football authorities have announced this morning that their season might have to finish as it stands if there is no improvement, we here will hopefully not have as bad an outbreak but God forbid we do I think the Italian football model is one we will probably follow.

Twenty Eight · 11-03-2020, 09:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom D

The conspiracy theory around it being bio engineered has been widely discredited.

Based on my experience, the knowledge basis for this virus is actually already pretty good, there's a reasonably large case series produced from China, Italy etc.

Man City vs Arsenal cancelled tonight, but more due to concerns over the players and other staff at the club, rather than the spectators. Playing games behind closed doors may not be possible either at this rate. Makes me wonder if this continues whether the season is declared void if fixtures aren't completed in a reasonable time.

Tom,

If the season is void does that mean Bolton's points deduction is maintained next season ?
Do Leeds say "thanks for that you've just robbed us of Premiership riches" ?
Do West Ham say "thanks for that we've %%% up royally but still a Premier club" ?
As for Liverpool .......................
The list is endless.
No chance of the leagues being declared void.
The FA and EFL have already had a meeting with their legal people for advice on the potential of being sued by clubs should they do so.

andyd · 11-03-2020, 11:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Twenty Eight

Tom,

If the season is void does that mean Bolton's points deduction is maintained next season ?
Do Leeds say "thanks for that you've just robbed us of Premiership riches" ?
Do West Ham say "thanks for that we've %%% up royally but still a Premier club" ?
As for Liverpool .......................
The list is endless.
No chance of the leagues being declared void.
The FA and EFL have already had a meeting with their legal people for advice on the potential of being sued by clubs should they do so.

The Fa and EFL are quite literally useless anyway now they are in uncharted waters and personally I wouldn't rule out the season being void depending on severity of the outbreak next 2 weeks will be crucial least of all for a game of football but for everyone's health and wellbeing.

Tom D · 11-03-2020, 14:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord Didsbury

I feel ever more convinced that lockdown isn’t going to work. China looks to be beating the virus, but as soon as it returns to normal what then?
Do we face months, years of life being **** with the same end result? The more I look at this the more I try to think of myself as a frail 85 year old. How do I want to live my last few years? Not in lockdown, not seeing my children facing financial ruin, not getting bad medical care because everyone is fighting the virus in vain.
Think I’d take my chances and hope that if CV gets me it will still be better than being kept alive in pain with some other disease.
No easy answers.

Purpose of stopping large public gatherings of any sort is intended for containment and mitigation of spread of the virus. The idea being that if we can stop a large spike in new cases, particularly amongst patients requiring hospital admissions and intensive care, the whole situation is more manageable as it is spread out over a longer period. It may not result in the overall incidence of COVID-19 being dramatically different without these extreme measures, so in a way you're right, but that's not really it's intended purpose.

Like I alluded to before in my other post, a lot of measures aren't taken with the individual in mind, but as a mitigation strategy for the general population.

On the subject of priorities, football drops down significantly as we enter the next stage in disease management. If a void season isn't practical, maybe a delayed start to next season and a reduction in fixtures i.e. not holding the trophy may be the way forward.