FANs not criminals!!!!

[Outback Ozzy]

Originally Posted by maccawozzagod

~Whilst I understand what you are trying to say Ozzy, stewards came on the Clayton End with fists clenched, THAT IS WHY THERE WAS THE LEVEL OF TROUBLE THAT WE SAW.


If the arrest/ejection had been made in a proper fashion then there wouldn't have been any objection from the crowd as a whole. Once it was obvious that trouble had begun then they could quite easily have made a cordon between the first arrest and the so-called police attackers - they didn't, they separated and became emboiled in various battles all over the place.

For the record, I personally didn't have any problem with the way the police spoke to people, or the way they handled the beginnings of the trouble. At any point that they are asked, or take it upon themselves, to intervene then there is a problem. That type of problem is usually violence and they were dealing with a crowd. They are trained to deal with problems as quickly and firm handedly as possible. For me the problem of the police on the Clayton End lies with whoever made the call that they were required and whoever was in control (or not) of the Stewards? Did they act on their own initiative or was somebody telling them where to go and how to act?

Macca, I wholeheartedly agree with what you are saying. My point was, as Yonmon so eloquently put it, was it hired thugs or our own stewards. To answer Yonmon's question, yes there is always a briefing prior to kick off of any match. Under normal circumstances, the stewards are told how many away fans to expect, whether there is deemed to be any threat and what category the match will be. There was a massive overreaction on Wednesday night, and although I was not in the Clayton end and did not see exactly what happened, there have been enough posters on here to paint the general picture. You state the stewards came at you with 'clenched' fists, this would point the finger towards the 'hired help', because I cannot see any normal Accy steward trying that in the Clayton End.
On a final note, I hope and pray Jase and Danny get the support they deserve on their day (8th) because the place will not be the same without either.

[Outback Ozzy]

Originally Posted by maccawozzagod

I've just posted on another thread that there were at least 15 stewards or police lined up in front of the Clayton End before the final whistle. Are they always there like that and I've just never noticed?

I suspect this was to stop any over exuberant fan getting onto the pitch. I suspect it was for one match only, but the stewards always do that at the away end at every match (unless of course there are only a handful of supporters).

[cashman]

Whilst some have defended the police, no-one has said why fans were subjected to walk through a scowling bunch of em, lined across the top of Livingstone Rd, before the match, what NEED was there fer that action?

[katei77]

I would urge anyone who has a complaint to read the asfc v nufc sticky thread

Not only can these complaints be used to prove to court that both stewards/police overreacted on wed night they can also be used to try and work with the FSF and club to ensure wed nite is not repeated again

Our aim of a group complaint is to work with the club

I would also like to point out that while mick is in charge of the stewards we can not soley blame him for the actions of some stewards.He had no control over what actions the police took on that evening.

But i do agree some form of statement from either from our safety officer or the club should be forthcoming

again no matter how small your complaint is please read the sticky thread asfc v nufc

[yonmon]

Originally Posted by maccawozzagod

I've just posted on another thread that there were at least 15 stewards or police lined up in front of the Clayton End before the final whistle. Are they always there like that and I've just never noticed?

You end that post with the word...'Premeditated?' Rob..
If this was the case then they must have been briefed to take up those positions....by someone who obviously didn't know that much about the behaviour of the Clayton End Fans..or had directed the Police towards making arrests for former misdemeanours !.
Whichever was the case...this Unnamed Supremo made a grave error in judgement... his or her strategy misfired!. and we are once more left with a cloud of mistrust and confusion hanging over all concerned Supporters of Accrington Stanley !.
This must never be allowed to happen again !

[mab]

Originally Posted by cashman

Whilst some have defended the police, no-one has said why fans were subjected to walk through a scowling bunch of em, lined across the top of Livingstone Rd, before the match, what NEED was there fer that action?

I would think cashy that with Livingston Rd being the main rout to the club and away end this would have been deemed nessesary BY THE POLICE AND OUT OF THE CLUBS CONTROL imho.

[cashman]

Originally Posted by mab

I would think cashy that with Livingston Rd being the main rout to the club and away end this would have been deemed nessesary BY THE POLICE AND OUT OF THE CLUBS CONTROL imho.

Probably so mab, but these clowns must have been briefed by someone surely, accrington fans have no reputation that i'm aware of fer aggro, plus fer a big club Newcastle fans are pretty good, having had much interaction wi em oer the years, its what i have have found.

[ROI]

Inside grounds police usually take directives from chief home stewards as they have the inside knowledge of match day at their grounds particualrly were the home fans are concerned,as happened on wednesday police were not regular police that attend the Crown Ground[not many are ] and so would be going off info. given by stewards,not for one minute condoning police action but some home stewards should have expressed more what happens week in week out on the Clayton end and taken control.

[Bagpuss]

Originally Posted by yonmon

Whichever was the case...this Unnamed Supremo made a grave error in judgement... his or her strategy misfired!. and we are once more left with a cloud of mistrust and confusion hanging over all concerned Supporters of Accrington Stanley !.
This must never be allowed to happen again !

And because of this I will no longer be taking my son to Stanley because who can say when the next time stewards will attack the fans wll occur?.

[DAV007]

Originally Posted by Outback Ozzy

DAV007 I really do have to take issue with this statement.

FACT - till rolls were thrown after the start of the second half.

a tiny number in comparison to the starting of the game and the start of the second half.

Originally Posted by Outback Ozzy

FACT - a message was tannoyed around the ground after the start of the second half to cease throwing till rolls. FACT also this wasn't heard on the Clayton End - which in effect is a club problem.

correct. as previously stated, we couldnt hear the 50 50 draw numbers at half time nevermind an announcement when the game was about to start

Originally Posted by Outback Ozzy

FACT - I know Jase polices the Ultras with a passion and his mantra is for a loud proud bunch of supporters who are - in the main - law abiding and peaceful. A policy I support whole heartedly.
FACT - were the stewards at the Clayton End, club stewards or hired help? You don't answer this one.

I dont know any of the current stewards, but I would presume they where hired as they where new faces and had no iunderstanding of the ground and fans

Originally Posted by Outback Ozzy

FACT - quite clearly you have never stewarded a game in your life. Try it, even at Accy it is not always that easy.

WOW, you know about my life.
Wel I have been a steward at football, and I have been a head steward at events.
Its a pathetic job, and something most people do to either A. get in the ground for free or B fulfill their egos.
Most people did it for A, the ones who did it for B are the ones who have been doing it for along time.

Originally Posted by Outback Ozzy

Whilst I support Jase and the Ultras for all they do at home and away matches, get off the stewards backs. Yes they may be paid 'washers', but without them, the town of Accrington would not have a football club, because they are a legal requirement - FACT.

Im not disputing this.
The best and most respected stewards are seen not heard.


But lets not forget the biggest FACT

the police and stewards where useless and caused the trouble which occured after the game.

[katei77]

Originally Posted by ROI

Inside grounds police usually take directives from chief home stewards as they have the inside knowledge of match day at their grounds particualrly were the home fans are concerned,as happened on wednesday police were not regular police that attend the Crown Ground[not many are ] and so would be going off info. given by stewards,not for one minute condoning police action but some home stewards should have expressed more what happens week in week out on the Clayton end and taken control.

If you look back at my eailer posts you will see that in the events of me be grapped by a police officer that one of our stewards made it very clear and not just verbal to the officer that i was allow through to the area to untie the sir bobby flag but did that officer listen to our own stewards NO!
For his troubles of defening his fans he was taken over the pitch side wall onto wall and told by the officer he was off now off duty

So to blame stewards for not giving the rite infor to the police in this case is wrong

If the police will not listen to our own stewards what hope do the fans have?

[smudgie]

I think the comments about people not hearing the tannoy system re: stop throwing the paper are a little wide of the mark.

I was bang in the middle of the Clayton End and heard it clear as anything.

Like with anything there are 2 sides to any story, and this incident is no different.

Agreed the Policing and Stewarding was WAY Over the top for a game of this nature, we where all happily singing and chanting before the game in the crown literally next to each other and there was no problem.

But no doubt in my opinion some of the actions of the Ultra's left abit to be desired.

[ROI]

Katei what happened to you was wrong and fair play to the steward for trying to do his job and as i wrote in my post i don''t condone the action of the police, but i still stand by my original post that info.would or should have been given to the police particularly from chief stewards/safety officers before/during and after the match .Please don't misunderstand me on this i know that some police think they are a law unto themselves and acting like robocop means they have earned their paycheque but i still can't help thinking that if chief stewards etc. had took more control of the situation things might have been different, as i said in my earlier post the police usually act on info. given by the home chief stewards wether this match was different i don't know

[katei77]

i agreed sumwhere along the line the rite infor was not given to outside stewards and the police

Complaint!

its the only way we can make any headway with the club.......the reason for getting the FSF on board is not only due to what happened with the NUFC game but the mounting stewarding/police problems at home and away games over the last 2 seasons.

we can all sit and moan about it.....i have done for months but unless we get ppls complaints in writing we cant take this to the rite bodies and say look we have a problem and we need it sorting

the complaints will also be helpful in court to show that other fans felt the stewards/police over reacted on the nite

we have a chance now with the FSF on board to work with the club and try and sort these problems

[Outback Ozzy]

Originally Posted by smudgie

I think the comments about people not hearing the tannoy system re: stop throwing the paper are a little wide of the mark.

I was bang in the middle of the Clayton End and heard it clear as anything.

Well DAV007 what have you to say to this?

BTW I stand corrected re having been a steward. But my previous statement re stewards on the Clayton End, if you did not recognise them, this would indicate they like the majority of the police were hired help and not club stewards.

Originally Posted by DAV007

a tiny number in comparison to the starting of the game and the start of the second half.

It does not matter how many were thrown after the game had restarted, the perpetrator whoever it was, was committing an offence!