Hartlepool match thread (H)

[Twenty Eight]

Chapman should have come for the first goal but lets get things into perspective the leaping like a salmon full back called Pearson never left the ground. Bad defending all round.
McConville's yellow card was exactly the right decision.
Average performance by all at best.
Strange isn't it ? 4 points from 6 in two poor performances.
As said earlier maybe that summarises League 2 this year.
I expect Donny to walk it.
Liked the cameo from the new lad though looks like hes a bit of devil about him - but why oh why didn't he put the chance away from Clark's great cross ?

[choirboy]

Originally Posted by yonmon

A case in point highlighted my thoughts about luck having any effect whatsoever during a soccer match . A fan sitting by me bemoaned the fact that Mark Hughes was so unlucky to concede the free kick which resulted in a Hartlepool goal .
But in reality Mark slipped, the ball being in close proximity to his hand struck the same, Graham Salisbury, a poor excuse for a Referee and a poser to boot, saw this and decided it was a free kick, and the rest we know.

Yonmon, Hughes did not 'slip' as you describe. He was pushed from the side and as he wobbled sideways his arm contacted the ball........
I agree that it was not 'Bad Luck'....
It was BAD REFEREEING!
It should clearly have been a free kick to Stanley!
As you say the Ref was very poor.

Whilst out cycling today I was pondering on the 'bad refereeing' on display almost every time I watch Stanley and when I watch highlights on TV of matches from the Premier League down to the lower divisions.
Now, while I am prepared to be critical of referees when it is justified, I do wonder how much more difficult their job has been made in recent years by two elements of the game;

1) The almost annual strange directives given to them from above to focus on one 'new' element of play at the start of a new season! A few seasons ago it was 'The tackle from behind'. Then it was the messing up of the 'Offside Rule'. This last couple of seasons it has been 'Studs showing' in a tackle! Hopefully, next year I'd really like to see that they stop players from 'shirt pulling' and 'opponent hugging' and that they apply the 'obstruction rule' properly.

2) The other element which makes problems for the referees is player behaviour. Two items so obvious here to me are;
a) Players constantly berating the referees with false claims for free kicks, hand ball, corners etc.
b) The other is my utter dislike for players who act as if they have been brought down by 'machine gun fire' and then try to get fellow professionals booked or sent off. (See Phil Jones last night for Man Utd v West Ham! What an actor!)

The big question is....Who would be a referee?

[yonmon]

Originally Posted by choirboy

Yonmon, Hughes did not 'slip' as you describe. He was pushed from the side and as he wobbled sideways his arm contacted the ball........
I agree that it was not 'Bad Luck'....
It was BAD REFEREEING!
It should clearly have been a free kick to Stanley!
As you say the Ref was very poor.

Whilst out cycling today I was pondering on the 'bad refereeing' on display almost every time I watch Stanley and when I watch highlights on TV of matches from the Premier League down to the lower divisions.
Now, while I am prepared to be critical of referees when it is justified, I do wonder how much more difficult their job has been made in recent years by two elements of the game;

1) The almost annual strange directives given to them from above to focus on one 'new' element of play at the start of a new season! A few seasons ago it was 'The tackle from behind'. Then it was the messing up of the 'Offside Rule'. This last couple of seasons it has been 'Studs showing' in a tackle! Hopefully, next year I'd really like to see that they stop players from 'shirt pulling' and 'opponent hugging' and that they apply the 'obstruction rule' properly.

2) The other element which makes problems for the referees is player behaviour. Two items so obvious here to me are;
a) Players constantly berating the referees with false claims for free kicks, hand ball, corners etc.
b) The other is my utter dislike for players who act as if they have been brought down by 'machine gun fire' and then try to get fellow professionals booked or sent off. (See Phil Jones last night for Man Utd v West Ham! What an actor!)

The big question is....Who would be a referee?

Yesterday Mike Dean was considerably worse than Graham Salisbury was at the Crown !..
His, and his Assistant's decisions cost West Ham at least 2 points,. Seems then that Refs who make errors in judgement are scattered throughout the game, worse than this are the 'posers' who seem to think that they, and not the players on view, are the big attraction ,

Would you be a Referee ?....perhaps one or more of the Refs who post on the forum will provide us with the answer ?.

[cashman]

Originally Posted by yonmon

Yesterday Mike Dean was considerably worse than Graham Salisbury was at the Crown !..
His, and his Assistant's decisions cost West Ham at least 2 points,. Seems then that Refs who make errors in judgement are scattered throughout the game, worse than this are the 'posers' who seem to think that they, and not the players on view, are the big attraction ,

Would you be a Referee ?....perhaps one or more of the Refs who post on the forum will provide us with the answer ?.

I have always been of the opinion "Anyone can make a mistake" but was Deans? he was looking straight at the incident, with a clear view, from approx 6/8 foot away, how that could be a genuine error is beyond me. stuff like that cost clubs fortunes and managers jobs, totally unacceptable in my view.

[Lord Didsbury]

Refs and Linespersons these days are a million times better than, say, the 70s/80s/90s.

My former team (Super Leeds) were not just on the end of crucial, bad decisions, they were often blatantly cheated out of winning trophies. So badly that two of them were banned from reffing again.

Refs may be inconsistent with the way they administer punishment but they seem very good with getting decisions right in the first place. They seem a lot less whistlehappy than they used to be. They are better at spotting diving.

Lines people particularly are excellent these days - having also to deal with more complex laws.

All this and the game is a hell of a lot faster.

[cashman]

Originally Posted by Lord Didsbury

Refs and Linespersons these days are a million times better than, say, the 70s/80s/90s.

My former team (Super Leeds) were not just on the end of crucial, bad decisions, they were often blatantly cheated out of winning trophies. So badly that two of them were banned from reffing again.

Refs may be inconsistent with the way they administer punishment but they seem very good with getting decisions right in the first place. They seem a lot less whistlehappy than they used to be. They are better at spotting diving.

Lines people particularly are excellent these days - having also to deal with more complex laws.

All this and the game is a hell of a lot faster.

The linesman on the cowshed, flagged for an obvious corner yesterday, the ref pointed for a goalkick, so he then flagged a goalkick and you say better LordD? not from where any of us were standing, he hadn't the guts to stick to his guns, cos the ref is sacrosanct these days

[Wynonie Harris]

Originally Posted by Twenty Eight

Liked the cameo from the new lad though looks like hes a bit of devil about him

Tut, tut! You'll have our religious affairs expert/fans rep on your case with remarks like that!

[AccyMad]

Originally Posted by Lord Didsbury

Refs and Linespersons these days are a million times better than, say, the 70s/80s/90s.

My former team (Super Leeds) were not just on the end of crucial, bad decisions, they were often blatantly cheated out of winning trophies. So badly that two of them were banned from reffing again.

Refs may be inconsistent with the way they administer punishment but they seem very good with getting decisions right in the first place. They seem a lot less whistlehappy than they used to be. They are better at spotting diving.

Lines people particularly are excellent these days - having also to deal with more complex laws.

All this and the game is a hell of a lot faster.

Not sure which refs & liners you're watching these days to come to that conclusion?
As for bring blatantly cheated out of things, I only need to refer you back to Mr. Kettle's behaviour last season & yes, he was 'asked to retire' from being an official after the Wimbledon debacle but somehow he's clawed his way back in & is still plying his trade

[Chimer]

Life would be a whole lot better and easier for the officials if they abolished offside - a stupid pointless rule which puts large chunks of the pitch out of bounds, so compresses the players into a smaller area than necessary, takes up far too much of the officials' attention, and can apparently be interpreted in as many ways as there are officials and pundits. Hockey did away with it years ago and it improved the game enormously.

Rant over .....

[cashman]

Originally Posted by Chimer

Life would be a whole lot better and easier for the officials if they abolished offside - a stupid pointless rule which puts large chunks of the pitch out of bounds, so compresses the players into a smaller area than necessary, takes up far too much of the officials' attention, and can apparently be interpreted in as many ways as there are officials and pundits. Hockey did away with it years ago and it improved the game enormously.

Rant over .....

Agree 100% summat ive always advocated.

[monkey hanger]

Would you be a Referee ?....perhaps one or more of the Refs who post on the forum will provide us with the answer ?.[/QUOTE]

i still am but would i start doing it again now the answer is no. players always only know laws of the game when it suits them but now its so confusing for them and officials. you get things like so and so sent someone off last week for that or the opposite being said. there,s a big difference between how older refs carry on to the new up and coming ones. still enjoy it though as if you,ve had a good game its very satisfacting and has given me chance to perform at villa park. the old filbert street, sixfields, carrow road and others where i would never got to as a player.

[VALAIRIAN]

Originally Posted by Chimer

Life would be a whole lot better and easier for the officials if they abolished offside - a stupid pointless rule which puts large chunks of the pitch out of bounds, so compresses the players into a smaller area than necessary, takes up far too much of the officials' attention, and can apparently be interpreted in as many ways as there are officials and pundits. Hockey did away with it years ago and it improved the game enormously.

Rant over .....

Originally Posted by cashman

Agree 100% summat ive always advocated.

Agree completely with both..., will never happen, but would be a massive step if it did

[yonmon]

Originally Posted by monkey hanger

Would you be a Referee ?....perhaps one or more of the Refs who post on the forum will provide us with the answer ?.

i still am but would i start doing it again now the answer is no. players always only know laws of the game when it suits them but now its so confusing for them and officials. you get things like so and so sent someone off last week for that or the opposite being said. there,s a big difference between how older refs carry on to the new up and coming ones. still enjoy it though as if you,ve had a good game its very satisfacting and has given me chance to perform at villa park. the old filbert street, sixfields, carrow road and others where i would never got to as a player.[/QUOTE]

I like the 'chance to perform' MH , did you actually feel that you were giving a performance at the time ?..this is not one of my critical posts incidentally !...the reason I ask is that I seem to see both on TV ( Mike Dean at Old Trafford !) , and on Tuesday at the Crown where Graham Salisbury's strutting around and posturing disturbed me a lot, 'performances' which are not always aimed at controlling a game but rather seeking to elevate their own importance to it !.

I only attempted to Referee one game a long, long time ago now !, where no Officials had turned up although both teams had and we're champing at the bit, so it was suggested that as a neutral onlooker , who someone quite mistakenly thought new something about the laws of Football, I should ' officiate' !.
Now my ego being what it was in those days, persuaded me to take up the cudgel, thinking that there would be nowt to it !.
All I can remember really is that after following 11 young lads around the field for ten minutes waving my handkerchief to enforce a decision ( I didn't own a whistle you see !)..and becoming increasingly bored with the whole thing. When this strapping youth took umbrage as I suggested that a tackle which he made almost decapitated his opponent,and disagreed with my decision to award a penalty , his words were ( F... off you blind B...ard! )....I handed in my handkerchief and effed off towards Rishton as quickly as my little legs could carry me !...

So who would be a Referee ?..

I value your comments and admire anyone brave enough to take control of a Soccer match...as long as they don't overdo the Dramatics !.

[monkey hanger]

I like the 'chance to perform' MH , did you actually feel that you were giving a performance at the time ?..



I value your comments and admire anyone brave enough to take control of a Soccer match...as long as they don't overdo the Dramatics !.[/QUOTE]

performance i mean was more to do with how i performed as a ref. or lino. i hate the word assistant, and not as someone who treats the field of play as their stage. i always tell any new starter to refereeing that you,re there for the game and not the otherway round. you could play a game of football without a referee but not referee without players involved. that may sound like common sense but there,s a lot of my colleagues past and present who do hold themselves in very high asteem, overdo the dramatics and wish they could look in a mirror for 90 mins. a little bit of common sense and humility are needed by all in the game.

[MikeA]

Originally Posted by Lord Stiffupperlip

...Who knows, he could become our very own Akinfenwa!

Good post but I wouldn't wish that on him!