Meeting Mr O'Neill And Rob

[accybabs]

Originally Posted by Doug

I imagine that a few of us are reading back our posts in light of Shurm’s meeting today; I know I am and I feel a little sheepish when I look back at the catalyst for some of my outbursts. I don’t know Shurm personally although we have had discussions in the past and from those I have a healthy respect for the lad.

I think it rather unfair for people to apply pressure to Shurm i.e. accybabs posts. This Lad challenged Mr. O’Neil to a face to face meeting and he responded to that request, Shurm as give us his personal feelings on the meeting which appears to have had a reassuring effect on him. I would suggest rather than bleed off the positive aspects of his post we look for positives ourselves and if we have any more searching question we perhaps put them to the club directly.

It’s been said time and time again; the best outlook can only be achieved by the two sides working together without demands. Sort the problem first and then discuss an appropriate level of representation by the ASSF on the Board.

Doug I think you are being very unfair on me, all I ask is to have my point of view as you do on a subject very close to my heart !I spend my hard earned on all home and away games unlike some! I think I have a right to do so as I and my family and the others that attend games regular help to keep this club afloat! So doug don't call me for that again! Shurm has every right to feel as he does ,since he has been privey to information that most of us haven't! So once again Mr O'Neil please put us in the know!

[accybabs]

hear!hear! Yonmon

[Tealeaf]

Originally Posted by Shurm

I asked what other debts the club had and he said nothing major apart from day to day bills. I asked how the debt could be so large for so long and he tried to explain they approximate paye payments each month and its not till the end of year that the taxman says hey hang on we want some more cash. .

Eh? This is nonsense. When it comes to HMRC, Accy Stanley is like any other business - or at least it should be. That means It pays it's staff wages which will be inclusive of basic and bonuses less tax and employees NI deducted at source; that sum should then be placed on the balance sheet, togeather with the employers NI contribution as being due for payment, and then paid to HMRC by the 19th of the following calender month. That is calculated to the penny, and it is a very simple calculation to do. At The end of any financial year, the only amounts the taxman should be requesting are tax and any NI settlements pertaining to benefits in kind for employees.

No wonder that Stanley find themselves in the mess they are in; but it is even worse, that Mr O'Neill seems to refer to this as in the present tense. Is the club still guessing at it's ongoing and future liabilities?

[simon]

Shurm, thanks for your efforts today, you have got YOUR answers sort of..

My only problem here is..

Ilyas has come out in public, put his head above the parapit(?) and said his bit, for all too see and shoot at. (the actions of an honest man, imho)
Dave O has not (could be read as not so honest ???)

I have meet Dave O and he seems a NICE man, Leagues above the first impressions eric gives, BUT my only reservations are, SILENCE is safer. (hope these doubts are unfounded)

[lindsay ormerod]

Like I said previously, I have known Shurm for years , since high school, and I trust his opinion and his judgement, he is a clever bloke and was a very good footballer, I am sure what we all want to know is how far along are we into actually saving our club? Obviously Shurm has come away with no firm answers, and that is about what we have come to expect. yep they asked him down, yep they met up, are we any wiser ? Sadly no.

I am still of the opinion that the management down there need to wake up and smell the coffee. No offence to Rob as he is the only one there willing to take the flack. I know Ilyas and know he won't sell us down the river, I cannot say the same for the current management.

[Doug]

Originally Posted by accybabs

Doug I think you are being very unfair on me, all I ask is to have my point of view as you do on a subject very close to my heart !I spend my hard earned on all home and away games unlike some! I think I have a right to do so as I and my family and the others that attend games regular help to keep this club afloat! So doug don't call me for that again! Shurm has every right to feel as he does ,since he has been privey to information that most of us haven't! So once again Mr O'Neil please put us in the know!

It's really to sides of a coin isn't it, we are all concerned and we all want what’s best for the club, but we all see and read things differently, to my eyes what you where saying in your post seemed unfair on Shurm, the lad had a personal meeting with the man and found some personal reassurance, that doesn’t make him a spokes person for the club. Your question is valid and I would ask you to seek a meeting with Mr. O’Neil and then you could come back and give us the answer that you are seeking and share that with us.

I haven’t been to a game home or away for over two seasons but my last week as been consumed by Accrington Stanley, I am very worried about what’s happing over there; I respect Mr. Khan for his offer, and I think he should give Stanley some cash, but as a business owner I can understand Mr. O’Neil’s aversion to what amount to taking a substantial personal financial loss just because the ASSF demands it.

On a final note; you have expressed your opinion on another persons post and I express my opinion on yours; it the way it is, if I believe your post is unfair I will say so and stand by it, then and only then if I see a different point of view as Shurm has today, I’ll perhaps change my point of view of your post.

[Shurm]

Sorry RR I don't know I think he is very frustrated with Mr Khan and wants to work something out with him but he said he wants the club to stand on its own without lump sums coming in here and there to buy players and ruin the pay structure.

The tax thing, I think the tax people give you guidelines on how much to pay each month and he basically said they had been been under paying it effectively and it eventualy catches up with you. He said the accounting side of things has now been improved and he said to me anyone was welcome to see the books .

Accybabs I've not been privy to anything confidential its just personal things about the people and their families and what there willing to do to keep the club going. I like to think even though I gob off every now and then I do have some compassion for people and what there going through and I felt it today.

[Shurm]

Originally Posted by simon

Shurm, thanks for your efforts today, you have got YOUR answers sort of..

My only problem here is..

Ilyas has come out in public, put his head above the parapit(?) and said his bit, for all too see and shoot at. (the actions of an honest man, imho)
Dave O has not (could be read as not so honest ???)

I have meet Dave O and he seems a NICE man, Leagues above the first impressions eric gives, BUT my only reservations are, SILENCE is safer. (hope these doubts are unfounded)

I agree mate

[Revived Red]

First of all, Shurm, thanks for going to the meeting today and for describing the situation as you see it as a result of that meeting.

Originally Posted by Shurm

he said he wants the club to stand on its own without lump sums coming in here and there to buy players and ruin the pay structure.

..... but the club CAN'T stand on its own!

• the attendances are not good enough;
• no meaningful alternative revenue streams have been developed;
• there is no current major sponsorship, and seemingly none on the horizon;
• the weaknesses in managing the SOS Appeal are indicative of lack of leadership skills at senior levels.

If the club is to stand on its own, where does he imagine that the money will come from?

[simon]

Originally Posted by Doug

I think it rather unfair for people to apply pressure to Shurm i.e. accybabs posts.

Doug what you reading ??

I only see pressure aimed at Mr O'neil, Not Shurm ???

[accybabs]

Shurm:I understand what you are saying and I would probably feel the same if I had been told some personal things! but still doesn't change the fact the rest of don't know all these facts! So till I know the facts that you know I will feel the same as you, last night before your meeting today! Questions have been asked to MrO'Neil but he does not answer!

Doug I expressed my opinion to Shurm not you ! And I was not having a go at him! So when you support Stanley with your presence Doug maybe then you can have your go at me for no reason as you have now!

[Outback Ozzy]

Originally Posted by Shurm

Sorry RR I don't know I think he is very frustrated with Mr Khan and wants to work something out with him but he said he wants the club to stand on its own without lump sums coming in here and there to buy players and ruin the pay structure.

The tax thing, I think the tax people give you guidelines on how much to pay each month and he basically said they had been been under paying it effectively and it eventualy catches up with you. He said the accounting side of things has now been improved and he said to me anyone was welcome to see the books .

.

This is the bit that worries me. If the books are open for scrutinisation, why have the ASSF and Mr Khan not been allowed to inspect them?

[Tealeaf]

Originally Posted by Shurm

The tax thing, I think the tax people give you guidelines on how much to pay each month and he basically said they had been been under paying it effectively and it eventualy catches up with you. He said the accounting side of things has now been improved and he said to me anyone was welcome to see the books .

No. A business such as Stanley should know exactly how much to pay each month - the source is the tax and NI tables provided by HMRC. Now, things can get a little more complicated when it comes to the bigger clubs and things such as testimonials, but even there -if it does apply to Stanley -then any possible liabilities should be accrued for. One of our major accountancy partnerships have published a paper on this and I have had a look through it but I cannot see where anything may apply to Stanley to allow for them to have under-provided in their Tax/NI liabilities. Have a look for yourself, if you fancy something to read to go to sleep by:

FAU PAYE and NIC

[accybabs]

If the books are open for scutinisation ,thats's a first ,maybe this is because they have only just been completed ! Maybe an annoucement by the club will be forth coming to that fact instead of through one man who has had a cheat with Mr O'Neil!

[Shurm]

Accybabs give them a call and go down, if you go to all the games home and away I'm sure they will want to talk to you. I had to hold my hand up yesterday and say I've not been for ages apart from the last two Fridays and he still talked to me for an hour and a half.

Ask your questions and see if he puts your mind at rest, you won't get your answers on here nor in the press I'm sorry to say but go and see him I know you shouldn't have to but he will talk to you.