Neutral thoughts on the Cheltenham game

Stanley92 · 15-01-2017, 00:41

Stanley fans,

Commiserations on the defeat. Written up some thoughts on the game - Cheltenham 3-0 Accrington: Four Things We Learnt | The Football Lab

Hadn't seen you since the final day game against Stevenage last year. From Coley's interviews, I get the sense performances have been better than results and opposing keepers are having worldies. Do you think results will turn around?

Good luck for the rest of the season.

Exile on Spencer St · 15-01-2017, 10:48

A very fair summary. Only two things I would note is that

It wasn't the ref who reacted to Rodak picking up Beccles' back pass, it was the crowd. The ref didn't do anything at first until the entire home crowd roared and the ref suddenly realised what had happened. If you watch the 'highights' (sic) there's a few seconds before the ref reacts.
I'm sure there are plenty of Stanley fans who'd dispute Brown's sending off, but I'd be very surprised if the club appeal and even more if they were successful in that appeal.

Revived Red · 15-01-2017, 11:03

Exile is absolutely correct. The ref's hesitation in deciding on the back pass seemed even more obvious on television than it did at the time. Having said that, it was the correct decision. It looked like a back pass - and we were at the opposite end of the ground.

Brown's tackle was possibly a marginal yellow/red card offence. But the fact remains that it was a very poor challenge indeed. I am sure that Coley would have been calling for a red card had the tackle been on a Stanley player.

Chrisr · 15-01-2017, 11:06

An excellent analysis and I was not at the game. The analysis can be applied to most games Stanley have played. I call it the Coleman way. The big problem we have is the inability to change tactics in a game or getting substitutions right. We constantly play with one striker up front which is a terrible formation to attack with. It is easy to defend against. Your observations have echoed the thoughts of many on the forum. The question was asked a little while ago had the manager taken the team/club as far as he can. This question did provoke some deep and passionate debate. People are now seeing shortcomings that were not exposed as much last season simply because we were on a big run and promotion was in sight. The real problem is we are not good enough with the training and development. We have let some top players go and not replaced them with quality, we have just released players from the club that could and should have played a bigger part in strengthening the clubs position. Is this a case of the players from higher leagues not being managed properly. They have moved on and done well for their new clubs. Chris Eagles move to Portvale proved the point. He was allowed to play his game in his normal position and was credited with 3 assists in their 4-0 win. so is our management up to managing players from the higher leagues? this question keeps cropping up.

ferret man · 15-01-2017, 11:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chrisr

An excellent analysis and I was not at the game. The analysis can be applied to most games Stanley have played. I call it the Coleman way. The big problem we have is the inability to change tactics in a game or getting substitutions right. We constantly play with one striker up front which is a terrible formation to attack with. It is easy to defend against. Your observations have echoed the thoughts of many on the forum. The question was asked a little while ago had the manager taken the team/club as far as he can. This question did provoke some deep and passionate debate. People are now seeing shortcomings that were not exposed as much last season simply because we were on a big run and promotion was in sight. The real problem is we are not good enough with the training and development. We have let some top players go and not replaced them with quality, we have just released players from the club that could and should have played a bigger part in strengthening the clubs position. Is this a case of the players from higher leagues not being managed properly. They have moved on and done well for their new clubs. Chris Eagles move to Portvale proved the point. He was allowed to play his game in his normal position and was credited with 3 assists in their 4-0 win. so is our management up to managing players from the higher leagues? this question keeps cropping up.

Maybe letting them play would be a good start.

monkey hanger · 15-01-2017, 11:34

[QUOTE=Chrisr;1185416]An excellent analysis and I was not at the game. The analysis can be applied to most games Stanley have played. I call it the Coleman way. The big problem we have is the inability to change tactics in a game or getting substitutions right. We constantly play with one striker up front which is a terrible formation to attack with. It is easy to defend against. We have let some top players go and not replaced them with quality,

think we,ll live or die with the above especially the one man up front. i don,t like it and does anyone. will billy be played with another lad to help him out on a regular basis. something needs to happen quickly before it is too late.

accybeme · 15-01-2017, 12:05

I think the criticism of JC are unwarranted he has performed wonders in keeping us in the league, being a manager with a small budget there is no money to attract top players or pay the wages they demand, at the end of every season the same scenario, if some players perform well we lose them to another club, then he has sorted through players which other clubs have rejected and build a team, I cannot see any other manager coming in and doing better than JC

Stanley92 · 15-01-2017, 12:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chrisr

An excellent analysis and I was not at the game. The analysis can be applied to most games Stanley have played. I call it the Coleman way. The big problem we have is the inability to change tactics in a game or getting substitutions right. We constantly play with one striker up front which is a terrible formation to attack with. It is easy to defend against. Your observations have echoed the thoughts of many on the forum. The question was asked a little while ago had the manager taken the team/club as far as he can. This question did provoke some deep and passionate debate. People are now seeing shortcomings that were not exposed as much last season simply because we were on a big run and promotion was in sight. The real problem is we are not good enough with the training and development. We have let some top players go and not replaced them with quality, we have just released players from the club that could and should have played a bigger part in strengthening the clubs position. Is this a case of the players from higher leagues not being managed properly. They have moved on and done well for their new clubs. Chris Eagles move to Portvale proved the point. He was allowed to play his game in his normal position and was credited with 3 assists in their 4-0 win. so is our management up to managing players from the higher leagues? this question keeps cropping up.

Cheers Chris, you make some interesting points. Do you think Coleman could become a victim of his own success? This season may be measured up to everything the club achieved last season, without possibly all of the better players except Kee.

cashman · 15-01-2017, 12:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by accybeme

I think the criticism of JC are unwarranted he has performed wonders in keeping us in the league, being a manager with a small budget there is no money to attract top players or pay the wages they demand, at the end of every season the same scenario, if some players perform well we lose them to another club, then he has sorted through players which other clubs have rejected and build a team, I cannot see any other manager coming in and doing better than JC

How is it unwarrented? i honestly think many managers could do better simply by changing tactics, Whilst players will always leave people are different n have different skills, but as has been pointed out MANY MANY times 1 up front does no-one any good. also as exile mentioned on the match thread, the way midfield mainly go round in circles rather than driving forward,

accybeme · 15-01-2017, 12:39

some how I can't see us improving by playing two up front
(Kee & Gornell) (Kee & McCartan) the truth is we havn't got a big strong Akinfenwa type player nor could we afford one

cashman · 15-01-2017, 12:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by accybeme

some how I can't see us improving by playing two up front
(Kee & Gornell) (Kee & McCartan) the truth is we havn't got a big strong Akinfenwa type player nor could we afford one

Whats wrong with giving Kee @ Edwards a run of a few games? only a kid but certainly dont seem weak to me.

Crown Grounder · 15-01-2017, 13:14

Playing with one up front is a valid tactic. However, it relies on the attacking midfielders getting forward and running beyond the front man. Or, the attacking midfielders running with the ball beyond the front man either through the centre or down the two wings. That's why it works better when Rommy plays because he does this all the time..........

Last season Windass and Piero were always getting forward and sometimes Crooks......

Our better players have moved on and we can't afford to bring in proven replacements, Coley brings in new unproven players who he hopes will get better and do a job but it's going to take time and may not work out until next season ...if it works at all..........hence we are stuck with one good season every five and we hope we survive league status in the other four seasons...........

cashman · 15-01-2017, 13:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crown Grounder

Playing with one up front is a valid tactic. However, it relies on the attacking midfielders getting forward and running beyond the front man. Or, the attacking midfielders running with the ball beyond the front man either through the centre or down the two wings. That's why it works better when Rommy plays because he does this all the time..........

Last season Windass and Piero were always getting forward and sometimes Crooks......

Our better players have moved on and we can't afford to bring in proven replacements, Coley brings in new unproven players who he hopes will get better and do a job but it's going to take time and may not work out until next season ...if it works at all..........hence we are stuck with one good season every five and we hope we survive league status in the other four seasons...........

Have to disagree, hows it a valid tactic when yeh aint got the midfielders we had last season? that fact alone to me means try other stuff,

Crown Grounder · 15-01-2017, 13:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by cashman

Have to disagree, hows it a valid tactic when yeh aint got the midfielders we had last season? that fact alone to me means try other stuff,

Cashy I agree with what you are saying ........perhaps Coley is sticking with it because he believes it will come right?

However, I too have become frustrated watching the same things happening very week.

I think the bigger problem is our lack of goals. If we were scoring, with a greater chance of getting something out of the game then we wouldn't be discussing the best system or formation. Why our shots and headers aren't going in is mystifying..........maybe, as they only play one way, they could simply practice shooting ...and also set pieces as we very rarely get anything from corners and free kicks?

cashman · 15-01-2017, 13:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crown Grounder

Cashy I agree with what you are saying ........perhaps Coley is sticking with it because he believes it will come right?

However, I too have become frustrated watching the same things happening very week.

I think the bigger problem is our lack of goals. If we were scoring, with a greater chance of getting something out of the game then we wouldn't be discussing the best system or formation. Why our shots and headers aren't going in is mystifying..........maybe, as they only play one way, they could simply practice shooting ...and also set pieces as we very rarely get anything from corners and free kicks?

The lack of goals is the big problem in my view, to me that only comes from a midfield that play forward balls predominantly, and ours this season for whatever reason aint doing.