Northampton away thread - Page 6

MikeA · 10-03-2013, 10:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by smudgie

Oh another shocking ex premier league ref in Atwell, no wonder he got binned off the elite list, absolute clown.

It makes me wonder. If referees are demoted from the elite list, why are they still considered to be good enough for the likes of us?

football19 · 10-03-2013, 11:33

The clue was in my question Smudgie.You don't have a link player in a 4-4-2(two wide men set up).
Didn't say Joyce's recent performances warranted a place (debatable tho).
If you have read my previous posts,I would play 4-3-3 with the link man in the central three.
Going back to what I said "at times we missed Joyce's link play",and as he performed that role in our best ever season,he can obviously play that role.
To be successful at 4-4-2,you need a very good defensive midfielder and two over-lapping/attacking fullbacks,so if play breaks down the defensive mid is disciplined to allow one cb to fill in.
We just do not have any top wingers IMHO so if we still want two up top,then it's 4-1-3-2 for me,with Joycy the link !

accybeme · 10-03-2013, 11:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeA

It makes me wonder. If referees are demoted from the elite list, why are they still considered to be good enough for the likes of us?

His decision sent our younger fans from full voiced vocal euphoric support to a crowd of non-stop blaspheming dunderheads

smudgie · 10-03-2013, 12:32

Stop to think WHY Joyce was great in our best ever season 2 years ago????

He had Proccy and that half decent player Jimmy Ryan alongside him thats why!! He is a good Stopper and breaks up play and nothing more. If you look back at my blog's a while back I was a big Joyce fan a couple of years ago, I think I even said he was our Claude Makalele, high praise if there ever was. I dont have a one man vendetta against him, everybody that stands on the Clayton End or travels to away games says the same.

But the simple facts are, he has not been good enough this season and deserves to be benched. SIMPLE.

Rooney doesn't perform for Man U, what happens?? Fergie drops him, Done, and im not just referring to the Madrid game last week.

We are in the fight of our lives, not only for the season, but the club's future and we simply cannot afford to keep picking players who are not performing. Agreed 100% with Leam to play Linganzi yesterday, who it turns out was our best player by some distance.

accybeme · 10-03-2013, 12:44

Yep smudgie,
wouldn’t it be great to have a player with the ball striking ability of Ryan

football19 · 10-03-2013, 13:20

Smudgie,I think we will agree to disagree.If you think Joycy is a ball winning midfielder,then we will leave it at that.(known him from being a lad at wigan,and he's never been that !)
Jimmy Ryan made him look good?,think it was the system we played suited his game,along with jimmy s.
Remember on a few occasions,Ryan being asked to play wing/stay wide,and he wasn't half as effective as he was in the three.
Your right,I don't watch the game from behind the goals as you see a different
slant on the game(see the width as against the length)
As normal it's all about opinions,and ours seem to differ.

football19 · 10-03-2013, 13:24

Just for your reference smudgie,Rooney had a blinder the game before Madrid!!

smudgie · 10-03-2013, 14:14

Did I say, im not talking about the Madrid saga???!

Your constant disagreement with my posts over the the last few years has become boring.

Enjoy wearing your Joyce is god shirt with red tinted specs.

Goodbye.

football19 · 10-03-2013, 15:54

Point I was making about Rooney was against Madrid,it was about shape and tactics,not who's the best player,and wellbeck did a decent job on Alonso.Just because I don't agree with a lot of your posts doesn't mean I am right or wrong,it's called debating,which is key to good forums.

Redraine · 10-03-2013, 16:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by football19

Point I was making about Rooney was against Madrid,it was about shape and tactics,not who's the best player,and wellbeck did a decent job on Alonso.Just because I don't agree with a lot of your posts doesn't mean I am right or wrong,it's called debating,which is key to good forums.

You are obviously an intelligent bloke, Football19, but I really can't understand your support for Joyce. For longer than I can remember his contribution has almost wholly consisted of passing the ball sideways and backwards, and even I could manage that! He can't beat a man, gives the ball away a lot, and snatches at his scoring chances. Oh yes,he gets in his share of headers, but they hardly ever find a team mate. Apparently, apart from all that, he's not bad playing in a system which suits him, whatever that may be.

cashman · 10-03-2013, 16:17

I have to agree Joyce aint done a great deal all season from what i have seen, in fact hes been dire, if its the captaincy weighing heavy on him,i don't know,

I would like to think thats the case, cos i aint anti joyce , But i won't sulk at yeh football19.

football19 · 10-03-2013, 18:16

Joycy is a decent player,but has struggled this season to make a impression in a two man midfield (central).Generally,these type of players are tough uncompromising types,with a good work ethic(doggers),as playing with two wide men,you tend to go down the channels via the fullbacks.
You normally need these types as your generally out-numbered in central areas.
To be fair,he has good technique and generally likes to play one-two touch,but our two up top,direct approach,just doesn't suit him IMHO.
He's definitely our best link player,and suits a 4-3-3(my preferred set up)
He is also one of the fittest players on the books.
If his replacement has a worldy,then I will hold my hands up!!!,but for now,I would have him in,and tinker with our set up,say 4-1-3-2

cashman · 10-03-2013, 19:05

As you yerself say football19, He has struggled this season, So we agree on summat.

I am not knocking his fitness, But fer whatever reason he aint been suitable fer the system this term, So that leaves just 2 options as i see it, (1) Leave him out, or (2) Change the team play to suit 1 player.

shakermaker · 10-03-2013, 19:27

Luke Joyce is the type of player that either goes unnoticed in a good team or gets victimised in a team playing poorly, such is his position and natural style. Manchester United were referenced earlier in this thread and continuing the metaphor - Joyce is to us as Carrick is to them. He does not battle and tackle, nor does he burst into the opposition 18 yard box; rather he mops up loose balls and turns play over to the forward-advancing players.
I believe he is unfairly criticised for failing to do a job he is not employed to do. In my opinion, the lack of forward movement in our team this year is the main reason for the seeming saturation of sideways and backwards passes by LJ. The reason for the lack of movement is that we have no real widemen with pace, another contributory factor is that one of our most creative players (Rommy Boco) has oft been plonked on the wing to make up for the lack in width.
With a ball winning midfield player alongside him (which Murphy can become but isn't the finished article yet) and attacking midfield players in front of him who move smartly, Joyce would be seen at the start of every positive move, I'm sure of it. In the absence of these all-too-valuable commodities, Leam Richardson has tried his best to employ one of our most reliable midfielders in a way which benefits the team but this has been difficult.
I'm not saying LJ should start every game; indeed I called for Linganzi to start in his place at Northampton as LJ's performance against Torquay was that of a jaded player. I'd be interested to see how Joyce, Linganzi and Murphy worked together in a midfield three with Beatts, Gray and Wing-nut (Jeffers) up top.

football19 · 10-03-2013, 20:34

As always Shaker,a great post and your points are spot on,good read