Players who should go , who should stay ?

slerpy · 25-04-2008, 16:23

Your thoughts please.

yonmon · 25-04-2008, 17:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by slerpy

Your thoughts please.

Take the Bull by the Horns Slerpy, and give us yours first !....
5...4..3..2..1....GO !!!

Outback Ozzy · 25-04-2008, 17:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by slerpy

Your thoughts please.

Sure - but the title is wrong, should it not read Managers and Players who should go and who should stay!

depechemode · 25-04-2008, 18:51

branch , whalley , carden , miles , roberts ( coleman messed his head up ) and evil should all go . think Kenny A will go as well by his own choice . bring kemps back , and try to get godwin here .

sparkie · 25-04-2008, 19:38

For me who should go are :- John Miles, Lee McEvilly, Paul Carden, Graham Branch, Shaun Whalley, Sean Webb, Ian Dunbavin, Leighton McGivern, Robbie Williams. ( I can hear the booing from here!!!

)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Players who will go though will be :- John Miles, Lee McEvilly, Paul Carden, Sean Webb, Leighton McGivern, Graham Branch, David Brown, Mark Roberts, David Mannix, Mark King

I also think other players will either move on or be bought :- Phil Edwards (bought) Kenny Arthur (uncontracted, move up) Ian Dunbavin or Martin Fearon (to cut the wages), Jay Harris (move up)

I think some will be offered contracts out of loyalty (Rocky) and at least one will stay that isn't really good enough (Shaun Whalley)

When you look at what that leaves us you get :- Paul Mullin, Peter Cavanagh, Leam Richardson, Ian Craney, Andy Procter, Bobby Grant, Peter Murphy, Jay Bell, Chris Turner, Andrew Smith

Five senior players and five rookies, how inspiring!!!

BedsRed · 25-04-2008, 20:53

Have a horrible feeling Evil might be around for a bit longer yet. (1) We're short of strikers and (2) As he's been out on loan twice I would have thought if the management wanted him out permanently, he'd have gone by now. Suspect sending him on loan might have been to get him football and to get people off his back.

Don't think Sparkie will be too far off with those predictions. Rough on some who might feel they haven't had a fair crack of the whip. On the bright side: that side will need an entirely new back 5, pretty much. King Arthur apart, this year's hasn't exactly covered itself in glory, has it?

A lot of clubs in Leagues 1 and 2 are starting their clear-outs already. I hope budgets have been agreed so that we aren't left behind in recruitment (having seen the Barnet goals, someone who could head a ball in our own box would be nice).

Wonder whether we'll re-sign any more old boys next season?

slerpy · 26-04-2008, 10:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by yonmon

Take the Bull by the Horns Slerpy, and give us yours first !....
5...4..3..2..1....GO !!!

I live in the deep south, so I do not see enough , that is why I am seeking " properly informed opinion".

Haggis316 · 26-04-2008, 21:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by BedsRed

Evil might be around for a bit longer yet.

As I recall he was signed on a one year contract with Stanley having a window of opportunity to make it two.

The fact he has spent so much of the season on loan suggests to me that Stanley would not be thinking of exercising that option.

shakermaker · 26-04-2008, 22:25

The players that should stay, for me, are:

Kenny Arthur (best keeper we've ever had)
Ian Dunbavin (capable back up)
Peter Cavanagh (captain marvel)
Phil Edwards (solid defender, finally hit the form he deserves)
Robbie Williams (controversial I know, but personally I think he has the ability)
Leam Richardson (very solid, very consistent, versatile player)
Andy Procter (as long as he keeps improving. he's a tireless midfielder with more guts than Rambo)
David Mannix (good techincal football brain - needs to improve consistency and work rate though. needs umph.)
Ian Craney (not his biggest fan personally but he has the abilty to be superb if he's played in central midfield. needs to improve attitude)
Jay Harris (one of only two defensive midfielders, tireless and solid. Needs to improve temper and consistency though)
Bobby Grant (probably our best winger)
Shaun Whalley (can be a very good striker for us, I think he's lost on the wing)
Paul Mullin (no reason needed)
Jay Bell, Peter Murphy & Chris Turner should stay as they look good for cover & depth.

However, we'll probably lose Kenny because he's too good

Players that should leave:

John Miles (useless)
Graham Branch (useless)
Lee McEvilly (even more useless)
Sean Webb (too slow)
Leighton McGivern (not had his chance, and not going to get it. would be best for him to move to a conf. club)
Andy Todd (I think his last season with us was his peak, think we could get a quicker winger to replace him)
Mark Roberts (lost his bottle after fall out incident, not going to play at his best for us again - not his fault though)
Paul Carden (not really our player anymore anyway)
David Brown (don't believe that he can play at his best in our team, intelligence doesn't sit well with Coleman it seems.
Mark King (manager clash - no chance to get back in squad)

Should bring in:

Darran Kempson
A quick right winger with league pedigree that can cross.
An out and out striker.
A decent goalie should be lose Kenny.

Outback Ozzy · 27-04-2008, 07:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by shakermaker

The players that should stay, for me, are:

Kenny Arthur (best keeper we've ever had)
Ian Dunbavin (capable back up)
Peter Cavanagh (captain marvel)
Phil Edwards (solid defender, finally hit the form he deserves)
Robbie Williams (controversial I know, but personally I think he has the ability)
Leam Richardson (very solid, very consistent, versatile player)
Andy Procter (as long as he keeps improving. he's a tireless midfielder with more guts than Rambo)
David Mannix (good techincal football brain - needs to improve consistency and work rate though. needs umph.)
Ian Craney (not his biggest fan personally but he has the abilty to be superb if he's played in central midfield. needs to improve attitude)
Jay Harris (one of only two defensive midfielders, tireless and solid. Needs to improve temper and consistency though)
Bobby Grant (probably our best winger)
Shaun Whalley (can be a very good striker for us, I think he's lost on the wing)
Paul Mullin (no reason needed)
Jay Bell, Peter Murphy & Chris Turner should stay as they look good for cover & depth.

However, we'll probably lose Kenny because he's too good

Players that should leave:

John Miles (useless)
Graham Branch (useless)
Lee McEvilly (even more useless)
Sean Webb (too slow)
Leighton McGivern (not had his chance, and not going to get it. would be best for him to move to a conf. club)
Andy Todd (I think his last season with us was his peak, think we could get a quicker winger to replace him)
Mark Roberts (lost his bottle after fall out incident, not going to play at his best for us again - not his fault though)
Paul Carden (not really our player anymore anyway)
David Brown (don't believe that he can play at his best in our team, intelligence doesn't sit well with Coleman it seems.
Mark King (manager clash - no chance to get back in squad)

Should bring in:

Darran Kempson
A quick right winger with league pedigree that can cross.
An out and out striker.
A decent goalie should be lose Kenny.

Whilst I cannot agree with you on some of the issues above, one thing that I would like to say is that of the players you have as leaving - particularly those who have clashed with the management, I would say, get in some new management (old record I know, but I believe Coley and JB have taken us as far as we can go. I am also aware that yes we have had some brilliant times in the past, but you cannot live in the past. and if anyone asks about who to come in, what about Gary Peters as another hat in the ring). I do agree about Darren Kempson though and I would prefer players with ability and height to come in because we cannot win against a big team.

shakermaker · 27-04-2008, 10:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Outback Ozzy

Whilst I cannot agree with you on some of the issues above, one thing that I would like to say is that of the players you have as leaving - particularly those who have clashed with the management, I would say, get in some new management.

While I was typing out how many players had confrontation with Coley, I was considering your point. However for me it comes down to collateral damage. Ok, on one hand we'll lose the fringe players who have had argy bargies with the gaffer... but which one of those will really be a big loss? Mark Roberts wasn't consistent enough in my opinion, and a bit too slow - even before the fall out. Mark King had a few tricks up his sleeve but is behind in the pecking order anyway after Leam at left back and Bobby and Shaun at left wing. David Brown, though a player who I admired in some games, just isn't consistently solid as a midfielder and doesn't score enough as a striker.
On the other hand, look at the amount of players we'll be likely to lose if Coleman leaves: Craney, Cav, Phil, Whalley, Grant, Harris & Rocky. Now, on top of that we'd be left clutching at straws/scraping the barrel for a manager to replace Coley.

No brainer for me.

As I've said before, Coley does have to get rid of his attribute that makes his personal problems with players affect squad selection. His tactics need help also, and if Asa signs full time he should get that help. But I do believe he has the ability to take this club forward.

maccawozzagod · 27-04-2008, 11:14

I am still in the keep Coley camp (is he camp

?) but just assuming he was to leave through choice or otherwise, would the dissenters be willing to take a chance on Jimmy Bell alone?

I would assume that they come as a package and would go as a package but if offered the job would he take it? I believe that as a partnership they are the yin to each others yang, but the one thing I do not like about Coley is the isolation of players who have clashed with him. Would Jimmy Bell alone have enough about him to give the club and team what it needs without Coleman?

Its only a theoretical question to the dissenters as I still believe, like Shakey, that Coley still has the minerals.

Revived Red · 28-04-2008, 09:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by shakermaker

On the other hand, look at the amount of players we'll be likely to lose if Coleman leaves: Craney, Cav, Phil, Whalley, Grant, Harris & Rocky.

Why? What evidence is there that a clutch of players leaves a club when the manager leaves, other than those that the new manager wants to get rid of? Are you saying that these players have such devotion to JC that they will leave? Or are you saying that another manager would move them on as not good enough?

Quote:

Originally Posted by shakermaker

Now, on top of that we'd be left clutching at straws/scraping the barrel for a manager to replace Coley.

I know this is often said, but I'm afraid that I just don't understand it at all. There are scores of potential managers out there - current managers of clubs just below league level who would love to move to league level, and players who are retiring and are keen to move into management. If the argument were to be "The devil you know is better than the devil you don't know", then I could understand that while not necessarily agreeing with it. But I cannot accept the argument that there are no perfectly competent potential successors out there.

shakermaker · 28-04-2008, 15:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Revived Red

Are you saying that these players have such devotion to JC that they will leave?

Yes. I suggest that the devotion of the players mentioned is not to the club but to the manager. Sad but true.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Revived Red

I know this is often said, but I'm afraid that I just don't understand it at all. There are scores of potential managers out there - current managers of clubs just below league level who would love to move to league level, and players who are retiring and are keen to move into management. If the argument were to be "The devil you know is better than the devil you don't know", then I could understand that while not necessarily agreeing with it. But I cannot accept the argument that there are no perfectly competent potential successors out there.

I can't help but restate my original point. There isn't one person out there who is a realistic target that would do the job better than our existing management. Players retiring wanting to move into management? Non league managers wanting a break in the league? Sounds like scraping the barrel to me!

Let's gain a little perspective here. Coley has not failed at all. On paper we have improved gradually. If in a good five years from now we are in the same position with the manager parading the same faults - then we should start looking for a replacement. Right now there is frankly no cause. The manager needs time to learn and improve, we owe him that at least.

Revived Red · 28-04-2008, 17:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by shakermaker

I suggest that the devotion of the players mentioned is not to the club but to the manager.

If that is true, and I cannot believe that it is, it's time for them to go. The club is bigger than any individual.

Quote:

Originally Posted by shakermaker

There isn't one person out there who is a realistic target that would do the job better than our existing management.

How can anyone possibly know that? We might believe it to be true, but we cannot state it as a blanket assertion.

Quote:

Originally Posted by shakermaker

Players retiring wanting to move into management? Non league managers wanting a break in the league? Sounds like scraping the barrel to me!

How so? Surely that's where managers come from. Almost all league managers. Some prove to be better than others, but that's a different issue altogether.

Quote:

Originally Posted by shakermaker

Let's gain a little perspective here. Coley has not failed at all. On paper we have improved gradually.

It depends which part of the paper we look at. Goals scored, goal difference, average home attendance - have they improved?