Reason for poor gates?

[MikeA]

I'm all for the drum and the atmosphere the Ultras create. I'm sure Coley and the players would prefer that to the fairly quiet home crowds we had a couple of years ago. At away matches they're awsome and worth an extra player.

As for the poor gates, they were even the main point in The Times article on Saturday's match: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article...921911,00.html. Here we are with a return to the league more than just a possibility and still the punters won't turn up. All power to Jase and the Ultras in their efforts to drum up support but where are they? Even winning Unibond Div 1 we had over 1800 when promotion was beckoning.

[Doug]

I think you’ve made some excellent points there big al. It is a matter of instilling pride and developing the passion for local football back into people, who have for the most part seem apathetic to what’s happening out there on the pitch. The Drum’s are incidental, but can be used effectively to build up the adrenalin and awaken passion within the supporters, played badly or at the wrong time they become an annoyance and a distraction for the real hero’s….Coleys Gold “The Players”. I’ve have paid interest into what’s happening over there, not in the stands but here at home, Kipax’s photographs, the Ultras site and the Official Accrington Stanley site and of course this site have all played there part in keeping me informed. But it’s the local population that needs to be informed. What big al is suggesting is in part a large piece of the answer, more as got to be done to promote the club in the minds of our own people. I take issue with Rindy on the point of free seats, it won’t work without widespread promotion, and if your going to spend money promoting free seats you loose out twice, the loss on the gate and the cost of promoting free seats. Much better to have a lower gate price coupled with other special events prior to the main game. If you’re going to spend money to promote something you need to recover your costs. A 2300 plus gate at £9.50 is always going to be better than 1300 at £12.50 and 6000 at ****** all won’t help anyone if they don’t come back the following week. Facilities and publicity is the key to future success, you need to build on the positives. Good publicity, Pride, Passion and a good Business plan will take you beyond the known future.

[garinda]

Originally Posted by Doug

I take issue with Rindy on the point of free seats, it won’t work without widespread promotion, and if your going to spend money promoting free seats you loose out twice, the loss on the gate and the cost of promoting free seats. Much better to have a lower gate price coupled with other special events prior to the main game. If you’re going to spend money to promote something you need to recover your costs. A 2300 plus gate at £9.50 is always going to be better than 1300 at £12.50 and 6000 at ****** all won’t help anyone if they don’t come back the following week.

Trust me, a loss leader does work if done properly. As for cost, in advertising a major promotion it can be kept to a mimimum, or better still free. Promotion was my job for seventeen years in London's fashion industry. I took a fusty old gentlemans shirtmakers, with an annual turnover of 500k to over six million in five years, all without spending a friggin' penny, as well as attracting younger trendier clients like Beckham and Eubank. All it takes is a couple of calls to the right tv station/newspapers if you have a story worth picking up on, which a free admission to our famous club would be.

Sometimes you have to loose a little to gain a lot.

Doug was it Saturday you came from the Fylde coast to Ossy Mills, but not the Interlink?

[Lancashire Stan]

I think the problem we have is the local radio stations. They play to the big crowds at Blackburn and Burnley, who can blame them.
Its difficult to follow Stanley when they are away if you can't travel, because the rare full radio coverage we get is only for home matches when we should be at the ground anyway.
Other clubs don't have the problem of two big clubs in the area stealing the broadcasting air time.

[Outback Ozzy]

Have anyone noticed how many former Accringtonians travel from out of town to watch Stanley. I regularly attend most home matches coming from Wigan, as well as as many away games I possibly can (work permitting). I know a guy that travels over the pennines from Teeside to most home matches and the odd away match, especially when we play Scarboro, halifax, he was even at the Morecambe game earlier this season. Then of course there is the couple from the Lake district who do a round trip of 130 miles.
Yes we have a core from Accrington itself, but after the match against Kidderminster (which I couldn't get to because of work commitments) I was listening to Radio Lancs and who got pride of place - Morecambe for beating Grays 3-0 (btw thanks Shrimps), not Stanley who moved 4 points clear at the top. Even the phone in after 6 pm was dominated by Dingle whingers or someone wanting a pop at the Oystons etc etc - not one call about Stanley that I can recall. JC is right in the story in the Times. God help us if/when we get promotion because I cannot see us sustaining a team on the back of 1300-1600 supporters.

[Doug]

No, it was Sunday……However; I have been to Accrington on a number of occasions on a Saturday and not attended the ground. Having admitted that I support the team and what they are now achieving at a distance. Your comments mean what exactly? That I shouldn’t hold an opinion on the subject. Some time back a prominent member of the site criticised a number of people who were expressing opinions and an interest in the club, as a result of his comments all of them stopped expressing anything regarding Accrington Stanley. Support is not exclusive to those who turn up on the day. And it not the likes of me who are the problem, the problem is at home and less than a couple of miles in any direction.

A loss leader usually indicates an abstinence from profit not a loss of income. Free admission on a 1300 “gate paying” attendance would cost the club over £16,000 on the day that figure excludes the costs of operating the facilities, staff wages, policing and all the other associated costs. A loss leader must be within the realms of affordability and have a positive effect of the gate. If you fail to sustain the increased numbers beyond the period of free admission you’ve gained nothing but lost an incredible amount of money that would take the rest of the season to recoup. The Club needs to promote its image, its heritage and publicise the positive aspects of it rise from the depths. It’s got to become business like and operate within the realms of reality. The next few seasons will require as much effort in the boardroom as on the pitch. Funding will be needed to improve the facilities, including amenities for the increased numbers at the gate the club deserves. They will come as a result of promotion, when they get there you better have something to offer them to make them come back again and again……. The club is already providing good on the edge of the seat football but it’s not enough. A slow game with good facilities will hold them; a slow game with poor facilities will make them stay at home the following week. It’s just my opinion.

[SimonStone]

I have tried to indoctrinate a few friends by taking them on to see a match at the IES.

They inevitably ask "How much does it cost to get on?" Expecting me to say a tenner or something even less. When I tell them it's £12, I'm invariably met with "That's a bit steep for Conference football innit!"

I think the club created a pschological barrier when it put the matchday price up above the £10 mark. I think sticking at that amount might have helped keep the attendances buoyant. I know there are some "recommendations" on admission prices, but some clubs do charge less.

Other constructive criticisms I have include:

Going for a pee is like an expedition in its own right.

Getting served at the bar in a reasonable amount of time is an art-form -- pleasant though most of them are, the staff always seem to be to'ing and fro'ing with trays of drinks for the "elite" in the sponsors bit.

The catering is expensive and not too good.

The atmosphere suffers through lack of a roof to project the sound (although nor doubt the drum will sound even louder when we eventually get one).

The approach to the ground from the Crown end is a filthy mess -- nothing a few loads of quarry bottoms wouldn't sort out.

BUT, overall, I think the price has to be the single most important influence on crowd size -- nothwithstanding the presence of two League clubs in neighbouring towns. After all, its only a couple of seasons since a dad and lad could gain admission for a tenner -- for both of them. And I know my earnings have certainly not doubled in that time!

For what it's worth ....................

[Doug]

Originally Posted by SimonStone

For what it's worth ....................

I think if people read what you’ve actually written its worth a lot. But I want to get one message over before people actually start posting that my opinion is over bearing. This isn’t just a supporter issue. There’s a lot at stake now the club in on the verge of promotion. It’s now very much a local business issue and how local business responds to the clubs achievement. If hundreds more people leave there TV or Big Screen league games and attend a live league game on there door step they will need to be accommodated. Nearly every business as something to gain by having increased numbers on the streets on a Saturday afternoon. HBC, local Business Associations and the Club should be battling to see how they can make this work for the town and each other. But even if they bring the ticket price down, will it bring more people to the ground on a cold frosty afternoon or a dank miserable rainy day in the depths of winter. Maybe, maybe not. Easy access to the ground, good parking, good grub and a choice, perhaps some cover for those that want it and a warm friendly atmosphere will go some way to helping. Everything that’s needed is there in the local area, you need someone to get off there a*** and bring it together, if this is already being done then it should be publicised and promoted, information is a powerful aid to growth, if you keep people in the dark you get mushrooms…

[guest]

:engsmil: .... personally i think the decrease in our attendance is due to the moaners in the main stand. they now have nothing to moan about so they dont bother turning up. were top of the league for points clear so the abuse and coments hurled at the management sounds even more ridiculous than before,

i must point out that it is only a small minority of the main stand but does this acount for some lost fans around the rest of the ground ?

i myself go to every midweek game i can and saturdays when im not working
REGARDLESS weather it hail rain or snow or
that i might not be able to get a snack or beverage at half time
or the drum

as long as i get to see the football i do not care !!!!

if you want somewere sheltered to go on a saturday wer you can have a coffee and sit down go the bloody TRAFFORD CENTRE!

if your passionate about the stanley then join our club!!!!!!!


on stanley on!!!!!!!! :engsmil:

[garinda]

Lol, it does make me wonder why people spend good money to moan each week. There are a couple of blokes who stand behind us who just grumble for 90 minutes. All the team are rubbish, Coley's rubbish, the weathers rubbish, etc.

At least they come to every home game and spend their money, so perhaps I shouldn't moan.

[Someone]

If the good folk of Accrington are asked to come along and support the team then they might come. Well done the Ultras for doing rather than talking on saturday in town.

If the good folk of Accrington are moaned at and told off for not coming then they will feel insulted and stay away. Wrong approach Eric and Coley.

Look after the fans. the match day experience isn't just about the team winning. It is a day out and the day out isn't very nice when you are not treated well.

[Whalley Red]

The psychological factor of exceeding £10 for non-league football is a very good point. There is no better indication of underlying support for a team than the first home game of the season. Here are the attendances from last three years:

'03 - 2003 vs Leigh RMI on a Wednesday night (adult ticket price: £10)
'04 - 1705 vs Burton on a Saturday afternoon (adult ticket price: £10)
'05 - 1012 vs Canvey Island on a Saturday afternoon (adult ticket price: £12)

There was no bigger example of a problem with attendances than on the opening day. Just over 1,000 people turned up to watch the start of a new season. We can't blame holidays as it would have been no different to the last couple of years. We lost 700 people or over 40% of last year's opening day attendance this year. That's where the problem started and answers needed to be found. The psychological factor of exceeding £10 for an adult ticket would certainly explain some of this shortfall of 700 spectators, but not all of it.

Just out of interest, in our last season in the Unibond Premier we opened with 602 against Runcorn on the first Saturday of the season. We won our first nine League games and that turned out to be the lowest home league gate of the season. If we had decided to move the Woking home to Friday night rather than 1pm before the England game, we would certainly have got more than 959 in the ground and our opening day gate would remain the lowest of the season ... as it had been in 2002, the last time we won promotion


There has been a lot of points made about the ground ... open to the elements, standards and queues for toilets and catering facilities and the mud outside the ground ... and most people would agree with them. The point is that if they were an issue, attendances should start to fall once the colder, wetter weather sets in (and hopefully rise again by Easter if the Club has something to play for).

Taking attendances for the last four seasons, here are the median number of people attending the games up to this stage of the season (I use 'median' as a measure of the average to counter figures being distorted by teams with very a large travelling contingent, e.g. over 3,000 turned up to watch Carlisle at a midweek game at the IES last year):

'02 - Aug/Sept = 1114; Oct-Dec = 942
'03 - Aug/Sept = 2012; Oct-Dec = 1627
'04 - Aug/Sept = 1507; Oct-Dec = 1357
'05 - Aug/Sept = 1142; Oct-Dec = 1506

The point is that we traditionally lose 150-400 people (or 10-19% of early season attendances) once the colder weather sets in and that does include the 2002-03 season when we started the season by winning every game. By contrast we have GAINED 364 people (or 32% of early season attendances) on average, which is something that we have not done before now. And let's face it, the number of visiting fans has been laughable at most games this season.

The conditions in the ground could certainly be improved and an improvement on the underfoot conditions outside the ground would be most welcome, but unlike previous seasons it has not deterred as many 'fair-weather' fans as in previous seasons; the problem was that they decided not to return at the start of this season. The club must make sure that does not happen again next season.

Full credit to Coley and his attacking style of play as it does keep the crowds coming back and full credit to the Ultras for the atmosphere that they bring to the game as it is certainly bringing younger fans to the games. We now have a higher number of 'core' supporters than we did twelve months ago.

So it's not all doom and gloom about attendances. Yes, if stadium conditions were better and more effort was put in by the club in targetting the local schools with players and ticket offers, attendances would be higher, but we're attracting as many people to the IES as we could expect to do so at this stage of the season. Over the Christmas/New Year period and from March onwards, attendances will start to rise again very rapidly and next season we'll have a ground and attendances fit for the Football League!

[guest]

i do agree with one thing regards to the cold weather. the oaps stanley do or did have lot of older followers because of the history of the club. and i suppose for them its just not possible in our cold english winter for them to attend the games

bless .

[maccawozzagod]

the Ramsbottom game was an excellent opportunity wasted to offer a night out at the football at a ridiculously low cost. Maybe the next round is an opportunity. I work saturday morning and saturday night so it is a big ask on the family for me to be out all afternoon as well. I have to try and cherry pick my games as Forest Green at home and trudging through the mudbath car park to stand in the exposed elements for 90 minutes before refreshing with crap lager in the now refurbished bar and paying £12 to get wet is not all that appealing. I have done my time home and away with the reds and cannot be called a fairweather or bandwagon supporter, there is though a serious lack of facilities which helps me make my mind up whether or not to go on a rainy day. Knock me for it if you will but its honest. When the weather is better I will be on more often

where's the roof
on the subject of the drum, it does not make people stay away. Nobody goes to the football for peace and quiet. Most folk expect jamboree and carnival when they go the match.

In my opinion 50% of stayaways are financial, 40% cos of the weather/lack of roof and 10% miscellaneous of which a minimal amount will be the drum. For every 1 who does not want it there are 100 who do.

Interestingly, after our Grays game, the Grays management bought a drum for their fans in order to whip up the atmosphere a la The Ultras. A lot of the fans at Grays did not want it and hated the idea but yet they still go to the games.

[Bazf]

I am reading with intrest that once again the subject of low attendence is on these boards, last year it was the roof, this year its the drum, next year it will be Blackburn and Burnleys fault, (though why any one would want to go to Ewood with atmosphere of a morgue I will never understand.) Why did the last team go out of the league, apathy of the local population and a big push when it was to late to do anything about it, to late to surpport them when they have gone. Good on the Ultra Guys and Girls for getting out there and selling the club but we need surpport from the local rag, a couple of paragraphs about a game keeps no one intrested they need to get to the ground and interview players and management even the ground staff and backroom staff, keep it in front of people put it on the front page and ram it down there throats let them know they have a team in town, will it happen? can't see it not with the observer, but maybe a writing campaign if everyone wrote to them about Stanley they may get the hint.