Smoking Area

[maccawozzagod]

it doesn't matter whether you can or can't do without a cigarette - th epoint is that it takes away your freedom of choice if you can't. When there is an apparently easy solution to the problem it then becomes that Stanley don't want to solve the problem.

As everybody has said, we are short on fans and can't afford to lose many more, every smoker that doesn't come back is lost revenue.

[Bagpuss]

Half time was a joy, you could enjoy a beer and a chat without Ricky in your ears, the stewards where not in your face and it was possible if anyone wanted to break the law to sneek a ciggie but of course nobody did.

[big al]

It is not Hyndburn council who imposed the ban, rather Lancashire CC who approve the licence for the ground. The club has requested possibility of pass outs or a designated area but they have clearly stated no way. The ground reulations by the turnstiles section 12 is the legalese for the no smoking inside the perimeter of the ground, just as no smoking in a shopping centre even though an open area. Sorry smokers but the law instituted on July 1st is the prime reason for your lack of ability to fill your lungs with the nicotene & 56 other chemical substances that make up your habit, the club is not to blame but all avenues suggested have been stonewalled by the regulating authorities, if it is not imposed the club can be fined £2000 for each breach. I for one would prefer that money goes to ground improvements & new players than goverment funds! Plus that little bit of lung clearance should help your ability to shout louder for the lads on the pitch.

[carpon]

Originally Posted by big al

It is not Hyndburn council who imposed the ban, rather Lancashire CC who approve the licence for the ground.

Well perhaps somebody could explain why there are designated smoking areas at Old Trafford ( Cricket Ground,not the theatre of the prawn sandwich brigade!!)

I know of several members of L.C.C.C. who tell me there are various places on the ground where smoking is permitted.And these areas are WITHIN the confinines of the ground....NO PASS OUT REQUIRED

[maccawozzagod]

could somebody please tell us the correct department at LCC to whom we may direct our vented spleens (and lungs)

[JEFF]

Originally Posted by carpon

Well perhaps somebody could explain why there are designated smoking areas at Old Trafford ( Cricket Ground,not the theatre of the prawn sandwich brigade!!)

As far as I know it is a Football League regulation that all grounds be designated smoke free.

[big al]

As I said in my post above & also refered to by Jeff, Football Ground regs posted on every turnstile & around the ground are the stated requirement of the Football League-section 12, but are as a result of the July 1st No Smoking Act. As for Lancs CC Macca suggest you direct your comments to Football Ground Licencing Dept at County Hall, Preston, though I expect the response is likely to be related to the Act of Parliment instituted on 1st July 2007. As the club could be fined up to £2000 for any breach plus the "offender" open to a seperate fine, the club & stewards are not being obstructive, our hands are tied with this legislation as much as you smokers-bear in mind some of the stewards are smokers too & have to abide with this as much as everyone else. As for OT cricket ground, it is not regulated by the FA but bet it will be revised in not too distant future to comply with all sporting venues.

[Stanleymad]

Then if thats the case big al, why have some other clubs got round this designated either a smoking space off the ground or allow a stamper/raffle ticket re-entry for smoking purpose at half time therefore to abide by the regulations but also not discriminating smokers at the same time

Surely at best interests of the club to consider as well as not breeching the law, as talking with some other fans off here after previous home matches can see either people rebelling ie taking the risk or that the crowd become a bit more unstable than normal - certainly heated emotions at tense times during matches at the other extreme. Surely this has put extra pressure & aggro for stewarding staff having this extra law to deal with on top.

[maccawozzagod]

HANG ON A MINUTE i'LL BE BACK WITH SOME QUOTES FROM THE fa!

[maccawozzagod]

this is taken from the following website and can be read in full at http://www.thefa.com/NR/rdonlyres/22...CIRCULATED.pdf

What premises must be smoke-free?
Premises are covered by the legislation if they are:
(a) used as a place of work, or
(b) open to the public or any section of the public, whether or not by invitation or on payment. The ban applies
to enclosed or substantially enclosed premises.

see later on for definition of whether we are enclosed or substantially enclosed

Premises are substantially enclosed if they have a ceiling or roof and less than half of their perimeter consists of
openings in the walls (other than windows, doors or openings which can be shut). More details about the “50%
rule” are set out below at Section 4.

The Clayton End isn't, the open concourses aren't, the away terrace isn't

Smoking outside
The law does not prevent people from smoking in the open air; it will be a matter for management if a venue
wishes to declare its entire grounds smoke free

so have the management decreed it? has the Football League pressured all its members to accept the ban?

Is it lawful for coach drivers to smoke in our car park?
Yes. The law does not prevent smoking in the open air outside an enclosed venue. Whether individuals are
allowed to smoke on duty or take smoking breaks are matters of employment law rather than the new smoke
free legislation.

I put this on because on the Morecambe site they have been told that you can't smoke on the car parks

If a venue has a back wall
and side walls of 5m and the roof extends 10m then the premises are not substantially enclosed and the ban will
not apply.

further explanation of why the Clayton End isn't covered

[K.S.H]

So we're being told porky's again

[Stanleymad]

Nice one Macca so a little place near the loo's is fine then

[lancsdave]

I think the problem is that while the venue itself may be allowed to use discretion, LCC still have overall jurisdiction of ground licencing. The problem there is that the bureaucrats at LCC and public opinion will always be the opposite

[Redraine]

As the Act of Parliament only applies to " enclosed or substantially enclosed" areas and defines such areas, I fail to see how on earth the open concourse behind the Clayton end, for example, cannot be exempted as are areas behind pubs. The failure to have a pass-out system beyond the turnstiles is even more baffling and surely could be adjudged within the law if there was a will to make it happen. Speaking as a confirmed non-smoker of many years I can't understand this persecution of a significant minority who we can't afford to alienate. I just don't think the jobsworths should be allowed to get away with this, or am I missing something?
Very puzzling.

[maccawozzagod]

that is all on the Football Association site (who govern the game in this country)

The Football League apparently have set the ban for all its members which is why the Conference and the Premier League for example have different rules

It states that any club who is unsure of whether they are liable or not should contact the local authority - nowhere doe sit say that the authority have the right to enforce any kind of restriciton of movement.

I can only conclude from this that the ban enforced by the FL on its members is unlawful and could be challenged by the relevant people.

If LCC do have the power to restrict movement of people to areas where they legally legally legally smoke then we would need to devise a way or rule whereby people have left the premises but haven't left the 'ground' if that makes sense (how about a hot air balloon still tethered to the concourse but not actually on the premises ?)

Fans of many clubs are starting to get really fed up of this now and I think that sooner or later there will be a campaign of some sorts that forces the League's hand. We need to know what the ruling is from the Football League and how they have quantified it legally. What right do they have to tell me what I can and can't do? what right do they have to enforce a rule that has no substance in law but may affect the financial welfare of a club?