Southend.

cashman · 23-05-2013, 18:39

Seems they been issued wi another winding up order by taxman.

In court June 24Th, another little team in the mire again n more fans suffer, whilst the fat cats in the premier get everything going big time, the small clubs gets crumbs n therefore struggle to exist.

Exile on Spencer St · 23-05-2013, 19:07

Your sentiments are unarguable, Cashers, but for League 2 Southend are not exactly a little team. But the madness of football finances and its dependence on debt doesn't just threaten small clubs. Glasgow Rangers and Portsmouth are two big clubs who have also fallen foul of the money madness that is infecting the game.

Mr T · 23-05-2013, 19:37

Sadly HMRC issue Winding Up Orders rather than find out a workable solution!!

DAV007 · 23-05-2013, 19:41

It makes you wonder why they decided to sack Paul Sturrock and appoint Phil Brown on an alleged 3 figure salary plus bonus for promotion.

carpon · 23-05-2013, 20:05

It may be slightly off at a tangent, but whilst we're talking about sides in debt and "winding up orders", My particular hate is this Adminstration scenario.....

What I don't get....... is that a lot of these sides that go into administration just seem to "magically erase" massive debts.Then within a year or two, along comes a "sugar daddy" who pours in a shedload of money into a now "viable" investment (now all debts are gone) and hey presto.....they start rising the leagues again !!

Bournemouth, Notts County, Rotherham have all escaped our league after being in admin. Now we have Pompey in League 2 who, now they've "cleared" their £60m+ debts will no doubt be up at the top fighting for honours!!!

And in some cases, some of these clubs, have had multiple administration periods!! (I may be wrong & will stand corrected, but I think Bournemouth & Rotherham namely have endured three admin periods each!!!) Bonkers !!

And if you want to talk about revenue in the game, watching an article on T.V. today about the "league of greed" versus the Bundesliga regarding the revenue each league attracts, the "league of greed" won hands down over the German equivalent.....£2.1 BILLION to the English top flight as opposed to the Germans £1.4 BILLION

And as Cashy says....not a lot of that vast fortune filters it's way...away from the fat cats down through the football pyramid to our Level.

Chimer · 23-05-2013, 21:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by carpon

It may be slightly off at a tangent, but whilst we're talking about sides in debt and "winding up orders", My particular hate is this Adminstration scenario.....

What I don't get....... is that a lot of these sides that go into administration just seem to "magically erase" massive debts.Then within a year or two, along comes a "sugar daddy" who pours in a shedload of money into a now "viable" investment (now all debts are gone) and hey presto.....they start rising the leagues again !!

Bournemouth, Notts County, Rotherham have all escaped our league after being in admin. Now we have Pompey in League 2 who, now they've "cleared" their £60m+ debts will no doubt be up at the top fighting for honours!!!

And in some cases, some of these clubs, have had multiple administration periods!! (I may be wrong & will stand corrected, but I think Bournemouth & Rotherham namely have endured three admin periods each!!!) Bonkers !!

Well yes but ....... the alternative is the club goes out of existence and if the town gets its act together they start again six years later with a team playing behind a pub somewhere in the Nonsuch County League Div 3 (South). They fight their way back into the professional league having lost a generation's worth of fan base, a still amateur business management team make a couple of wrong decisions and whoops there they go again ...... but the administration safety net means the fans don't have to lose all hope immediately this time around.

It may save Aldershot from having to do a second phoenix act and let's not forget just how close we were not so long ago - but our unusual sugar daddy put his money in a bit earlier and sought no reward.

Portsmouth's latest so-called sugar daddy lost many, many millions from his "viable

investment" when they fell back into administration and the courts effectively ruled in favour of the supporters' trust by booting his valuation of his assets into touch. Didn't help the small local suppliers, now creditors for the second time, who are only getting a small percentage of the small percentage they were going to get after the first (Redknapp) administration, but 14000-20000 fans will still have a club to support next season - and most of the local suppliers will supply again because their hearts will rule their heads. And I bet 2500 of those supporters come to the Crown (which I know from personal experience is a sodding long way and in my case involves bribing SWMBO with a night or two at the Dunkenhalgh

) if our powers-that-be give 'em enough space!

The thing that is truly bonkers is the "football creditors first" rule.

Only my opinion ........

carpon · 23-05-2013, 22:36

Fair point Chimer, tho as I remember when we were in financial trouble a couple of years ago, I think admin for Stanley wasn't an option at the time if I remember rightly??

My point is more aimed at clubs who don't seem to worry about getting into debt..... then conveniently play the admin card, once they realise they can't pay what they owe; and the debts to a majority of creditors get "wiped away". Or the creditors receive pennies in the pound for their debts.

Take Bournemouth as a prime example.Despite being in administration three times before, they've just got promoted to the Championship after a great big heavy spending spree. They've reportedly built up debts of £3.5-£4 million. Again. Now fair enough they expect to make around £5m from a season in the Championship.

But let's say for argument's sake that they spend heavily again in an attempt to stay in the Championship next season. But they don't perform on the pitch next season and are marooned at the bottom end of the Championship come March. And their expected financial income falls well short of the £5m they were "expecting"

They then find that what they already owed has probably doubled and realise that they've no way of paying their creditors with an impending relegation.

Then the Board at Bournemouth decide to take the 10 point hit for admin, given that (in March )they would be all but consigned to relegation, the slate is again "wiped clean" so to speak and they're no worse off than where they started this season just gone !! Back in League 1 with no debts.

Now You can quote Pompey as an example Chimer, but this culture is endemic in football. Rack up debt, then wipe it off by going into admin.

Only the bigger clubs get away with it because they can point to the fact they have a large fanbase and therefore a ready source of revenue.

In the real world, businesses close if they can't pay off their debts. People lose their jobs and livelyhoods.

Not so in football. A team can go into administration not once, but several times and carry on trading.

Now that's Bonkers!!

Which makes me wonder ........what's the point in these "fair play" rules the lower leagues have to adhere to??? If I remember rightly in League 2 you're playing budget must be no greater than 50-55% of you're income, In League 1.... I think it's 60-65%

Surely if that's the case, how do clubs manage to keep racking massive debts up???

How is it "fair play" when clubs like ours have to watch every penny and work within stringent tight budgets, when other clubs can conveniently play the admin card like they're plucking the joker from the pack????

Bonkers !!

Lost in Cornwall · 24-05-2013, 09:13

I agree and I feel sorry for the poor local businesses who suffer from administration. Yes, their hearts might rule their heads but there weren't many queuing up to give anything back to Plymouth after their CVA was agreed at 7p in the pound. The club survived but I wonder how many of their local creditors didn't.

cashman · 24-05-2013, 12:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lost in Cornwall

I agree and I feel sorry for the poor local businesses who suffer from administration. Yes, their hearts might rule their heads but there weren't many queuing up to give anything back to Plymouth after their CVA was agreed at 7p in the pound. The club survived but I wonder how many of their local creditors didn't.

These are the people that should be looked after proper (Local Business) as far as i'm concerned, they are the lifelines fer any small club, sadly that aint always the case.

Exile on Spencer St · 24-05-2013, 19:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by cashman

These are the people that should be looked after proper (Local Business) as far as i'm concerned, they are the lifelines fer any small club, sadly that aint always the case.

Totally agree but, as Chimer said above, the dubious "football creditors rule first" can only discourage many local businesses to deal with struggling clubs, as they would get zilch after the club staff and agents have been paid off, and has encouraged HMRC to become more aggressive in trying to recover what it believes it's owed from clubs. In every business but football HMRC usually heads the queue of creditors, but by not being guaranteed first pickings HMRC is now acting more swiftly to issue winding up orders. Finances of football are, and probably long have been, beyond logic.