The Real Problem At Accrington Stanley

Minister Onymfo · 30-10-2009, 19:55

Simple our crowds have been too small, and as long as they remain too small we will struggle to survive at this level.

I recently posted a 'back of a fag-packet' calculation of what it could cost to run Accrington Stanley and how much revenue it was likely to receive from various gate numbers. The reason we are in debt is because we had average crowds of 2200 watching us win the Conference. It would not be unreasonable for the club ie. Eric to think when we got into the League then crowds would be higher and therefore a sustainable income would be acheived. What happened.... 1000 fans per game p*ssed off somewhere else, the main sponsor goes bust and some players whom I assume got decent salaries couldn't hack it for us. Bang goes the budget and at some point during this Dave O'Neill has forked out a not insignificant amount of cash to keep us going.
I have read alot of hard words in relation to the Chairman and the Directors particularly since the weekend. I don't know Dave but I do know some of the others and what is being said about them collectively is outrageous and unfair. There are people on the board who have given their time, money and lives to the club for decades. They have walked the streets of Accrington knocking on doors 'badgering' a relatively apathetic public to buy raffle tickets, weekly draw numbers, sportsmans dinner tickets, they've painted walls (somewhere in the club there is a wall that is the same colour of red as my dinning room because one director 'scrounged' the half-full tin I had left and painted it himself), dug drains, built terracing, installed seats, sold half-time draw tickets, counted gate money, written endless letters to countless businesses, endless phone calls late on Friday nights trying to get a last minute sponsors, donating raffle prizes. Remember the Chairmen at Accrington Stanley have 'owned' the club by virtue of their majority shareholding what they say goes, 51% has it over 49% everytime. You get on with it and do your best for the club and hope the Big Man maintains a reasonable level of common sense (why would any one with any common sense want the thankless task of running a football club, it is just like being Primeminister, you've got to be barking)
This isn't Manchester 'effing' United where a place on the board means a free ride, prawn sandwiches and regular European Cup Finals. For alot of the directors past and present it has meant parting with hefty sums of cash to keep the place afloat and working damn hard for b*gg*r all other than the satisfaction of keeping the club alive, a club they love as much as anybody who pays through the gate.

I read it like this, Eric took us a stage beyond his means and was struggling to maintain the level of input the place needed. He got out. Dave under-estimated the size of the immediate task and has found himself in it up to his neck. Both these characters obviously put alot of their time and money into the place. I suspect they both have big ego's hence the reluctance to accept Ilyas's offer of help.

Remember the supporters have paid third of the tax bill, Ilyas/Peter has paid a third and the club are paying a third. We are equal partners in this and thus should work together to get the club back on it's feet and not tear it apart, some fans are already saying and doing silly things. This has got to stop before we alienate the goodwill and wishes of the majority of the floating support we have attracted during the past few months.

WE NEED THESE FLOATING FANS! At the moment when I read some of the stuff on here I am embarassed and ashamed and I feel like staying away from the games, I won't but this is the feeling I have. Imagine then what the punter who does not have that emotional tie with the club must think 'Sod going to the Stanley there all a bunch of headcase's'.

Let's get a grip and start encouraging people to come and watch the fantastic football Coley and the lads have been serving up and put all the other crap behind us.

WE NEED MORE FANS.......simples

lancsdave · 30-10-2009, 20:14

It's a very good post but how do you get the floating fans to turn up. First and foremost the club needs to attract those floating fans from the borough itself. The best way of doing this is actually make the club a part of the community. Slagging them off as one particular chairman has done is not the most subtle way of doing that.

Part of that process of involving the local community is actually to form links with local businesses, community groups & schools. Do they do enough of that ?

Minister Onymfo · 30-10-2009, 20:22

Ask Spring Hill and other schools.

Ask the kids who have done the soccer club this week or the ones who go to the Saturday Match Club.

I think there is a pretty good set up in that respect.

How do we know Dave wasn't going to push these sort of programmes had he not had to spend his efforts trying to find 300K.

maccawozzagod · 30-10-2009, 20:25

good post onymfo.

Whilst I dont disagree with what you have said about the directors, and it is true that they have worked very hard in the past and have 100% helped to get us where we are now, the fact remains that they are no longer up to the task IMHO.

Amongst the financial expectations of your board of directors are obligations to guide and instruct. This has never been seen to be done because we have operated with Chairmen who want to run things. They are still there to make valuable contributions to most aspects of the club and I personally wouldn't want to lose that. BUT ...

.. We recently heard that the words "I'd rather the club go under than deal with Ilyas or ASSF" were uttered by one of our directors and agreed with by another. This attitude would have taken the club to its grave had Ilyas shown them the disregard they showed him. Many of the Directors are no longer the successful businessmen they once were in younger days, to me a director is one who is still in the mix with what is going on in the business community and still has influence around the money men of the town. People like Gary Swann (Buy the House), Graham Charnley (Interlink) and Andy Thorpe (Combined Stabilisation). Incidentally these are all people who have recently become disillusioned with the club.

For whatever reason we were minutes away from the club folding. There are people at the top who could and should have done a hell of a lot more to prevent that situation from ever happening

CLAYTON RED · 30-10-2009, 20:26

Its easier to fight when you know the goal to reach, but when fighting a battle and you think you have the advantage by knowing the enemy and target. it becomes harder to win when the enemy can play the sabotage card directly or by indirect ignorance. then the battle becomes more difficult until you weed the sabotage out.

lancsdave · 30-10-2009, 20:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by maccawozzagod

Incidentally these are all people who have recently become disillusioned with the club.

Sort of expands on my point above, but I didn't realise there was a queue

Minister Onymfo · 30-10-2009, 20:27

You can tell by the number of kids on the ground that the younger fans are being nurtured. The problem has always been with guys my age who didn't have a League club in Accy when we grew up an thus they support Rovers, Burnley (yourself perhaps) United Liverpool. You can't blame them but we could do with the people who saw us beat Huddersfield and Bournemouth or saw the Conference trophy presented at the home game against Tamworth. Christ we got 3000 when we got promoted from Unibond League 1 where are they now?

DAV007 · 30-10-2009, 20:30

Onymfo

the fact stanley where nearly assigned to 'the past' is as good a reason as any why the current directors/top management MUST go.

lancsdave · 30-10-2009, 20:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minister Onymfo

You can tell by the number of kids on the ground that the younger fans are being nurtured. The problem has always been with guys my age who didn't have a League club in Accy when we grew up an thus they support Rovers, Burnley (yourself perhaps) United Liverpool. You can't blame them but we could do with the people who saw us beat Huddersfield and Bournemouth or saw the Conference trophy presented at the home game against Tamworth. Christ we got 3000 when we got promoted from Unibond League 1 where are they now?

Gates will always improve when the team is successful. I think if things continue on the field as they have started the gates will improve as the season goes on.

maccawozzagod · 30-10-2009, 20:34

i think the community aspect of the club is probably its biggest asset. Remeber it is only in its third year and is growing bigger all the time. They are into most of the schools and the ones they arent into is not their fault. They probably couldn't do an awful lot more if they wanted to at this time because of a lack of facilities.

look at the number of 14/15 year olds who tag onto the Ultras at home matches - they'll still be here in a few years time and are the future of our active fanbase. They love the atmosphere and they saw us win the title at an impressionable age. Supporting Stanley now is cooler than it used to be - just not quite cool enough.

I also think Dave would have done well for Stanley had the tax debt not happened - however the way that he has dealt with the problem is the reason he is getting the flak now. Wrong man at the wrong time unfortunately for him.

cashman · 30-10-2009, 20:35

i am aware of a couple of local business people that would dispute that Mr Onymfo, agree they are making good improvements wi the kids "now" summat that was suggested the season they entered the league.

small gates have always been the problem that is beyond dispute, if i remember correctly was around the 3000 mark back in 62,-------------------------Let's get a grip and start encouraging people to come and watch the fantastic football Coley and the lads have been serving up and put all the other crap behind us.

WE NEED MORE FANS.......simples -------- ---------------really unless yer on mars, its the club that needs to get a grip, fans have been trying to encourage people to come along fer years, its rank bad management that has alienated some of what we had. coley n lads have served up some cracking footy this season n been let down by those at the helm IMHO.

lancsdave · 30-10-2009, 20:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by lancsdave

Part of that process of involving the local community is actually to form links with local businesses, community groups & schools. Do they do enough of that ?

OK, between Mr O and Macca looks like the third part is coming along nicely. What about the other 2

Minister Onymfo · 30-10-2009, 20:48

The fact Eric isn't p*ssing the punters off must be an attraction in itself :-).

Got to go I am afraid. There is a pint of yellow fizzy stuff with my name on it

Come on the Reds 1-1

deeayess · 30-10-2009, 20:49

It's not just getting fans through the turnstyle that's the problem. Have you ever tried buying anything from the club online or on ebay or tried to get the club to reply to emails? Last season I had a programme subscription as I only make games if my team aren't playing, and i would be lucky if I got half a dozen sent to me. At one point I picked up about 3 months worth towards the end of the season despite numerous emails. I only got the chesterfield one after Mr T intervened. This season I didn't renew and will get them as and when I'm down or off ebay. The Stanley ebay site in it's 3rd incarnation was OK but if you read recent feedback it will go the way of the previous 2. anything I have ordered from the stanleystore is more in hope than expectation and the stock is now so limited I struggle to find anything to buy.

I signed up to the Stanley Legends a few months after it started and after they actually started sending my programmes. I started at a fiver a month to see how it developed with the intention of increasing it if it was worthwhile. That never happened and if I ever get round to it I may cancel my standing order.

When the new season ticket deal was announced I considered getting on as the discount vouchers and the low price would have been almost worth it for the games I make but when I emailed Rob with a few queries before making a decision I got no reply so I pay on the door when I'm down.

At one point I considered giving up and going to Burnley again as I did many years ago with my dad when he was alive but the lure of the Stanley still too strong and it is a far better experience at Accy. I have a season ticket at Ibrox so don't need the lure of the Premiership, unless it's with the Gers, or Stanley

.

If people get a bad service from the club it puts them off buying again but good service might make them come for a look or come back.

When I've been down I have met Rob a few times and had a chat and a pint or two and he is a great person but online or by email it often seems the exact opposite. The one person who has always been a credit to the club in my experience is MrT who has always helped when he could and always replies to me.

As with any organisation the problem isn't so much getting people to come it's getting them to come back.

CLAYTON RED · 30-10-2009, 20:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by maccawozzagod

I also think Dave would have done well for Stanley had the tax debt not happened - however the way that he has dealt with the problem is the reason he is getting the flak now. Wrong man at the wrong time unfortunately for him.

I have to agree, If only they had been open about everything it would of gained them both better respect, but the way they have dealt with it is a joke and I ain't laughing like the rest of you.