Today's Programme

[katei77]

Originally Posted by Revived Red

Katei77, this is what you wrote last night:

"We heard many convos between board and staff members"

You did NOT say that you had these conversations (convos??) with members of the board or staff.

Either conversations between my self with board or staff members or conversations between staff and board members that we heard will be repeated

Seriously, what a dreadful way to run a business. It's obvious from Katei77's post that confidential matters were being discussed in public.

at no point have i said any confidential matters were discussed

[Revived Red]

Originally Posted by katei77

Either conversations between my self with board or staff members or conversations between staff and board members that we heard will be repeated

Seriously, what a dreadful way to run a business. It's obvious from Katei77's post that confidential matters were being discussed in public.

at no point have i said any confidential matters were discussed

Sorry, Katei77, but I do not understand the first part of your post.

As for the second sentence, I never said that you DID say that confidential matters were being discussed. I said it was obvious from what you wrote that matters were being discussed which were of a confidential nature. Otherwise you would not have made such a point of telling us that you could not repeat what was said!

[katei77]

I was not told by anyone at the club not to repeat any convos

I could repeat them but that would not do the club or fans any good at this point in time

Im not going to enter into a war of words we had a great day Hannah loved every minute of it and that is what matters

[Doug]

I think I like Mr. Willie enough to trust his judgement and I agree totally with his statement that it is a shame that the various groups can’t work together at this stage; because now is the time for that level of action; the potential power of the ASSF ebbed away somewhat with Mr. Khan’s withdrawal and the board are somewhat self assured that they will bring the club through this immediate crises.

I believe at this stage we have no alternative but to trust their judgement and get behind them and the club in order to move everything forward.

Our Willie’s point is quite an important one and the sooner the individual groups pull together the stronger the force for good. Not every member needs to agree every time and at the end of the day the call is the boards or Mr. O’Neil’s which ever way you want to view ownership. But we can have a say and we can influence decisions; but only by working together, trusting and assisting each other to achieve one outcome…..The Advancement of Accrington Stanley.

Best solution is a working party, two or three candidates from each representative group forming a supporter’s panel with the sole aim of advancing the club and ensuring a consent funding stream to ward off such event’s in the future. Other issues could be ground development, Kit design, sponsorship, community liaison….The first key element is trust, and the second is transparency.

Who should be involved?
The Board,
The OSC,
The Stanley Ultras,
The ASSF,
And; possibly individual representatives such as Mr. Khan and local Business.

Statement of Purpose

To coordinate effort - Avoiding duplication.
To Inform – Avoiding mistrust and false information.
To Advance the Accrington Stanley Brand – Not alienate it.

It’s our Choice; if we don’t pull together some groups might possibly become barrier to progress or just disappear altogether from lack of support.

[yonmon]

[QUOTE=Doug;752507
It’s our Choice; if we don’t pull together some groups might possibly become barrier to progress or just disappear altogether from lack of support.[/QUOTE]


]Isn't that a well known Management equation though Doug ..which appears to add some weight to your proposals??.

FACTIONS + DISCORD = FAILURE

COHESION + ACCORD = SUCCESS.

Simplistic I know.......But from evidence observed on many occasions....TRUE nevertheless!!

'ON STANLEY...TO BETTER THINGS !!...ON !!!'

[Redraine]

Can somebody who has recently been converted to the optimistic view of the taxman situation please let the rest of us know what has changed their minds? No compromising detail needed - just a rough idea would do, but based on SOMETHING concrete.

[Doug]

Originally Posted by yonmon

]Isn't that a well known Management equation though Doug ..which appears to add some weight to your proposals??.

FACTIONS + DISCORD = FAILURE

COHESION + ACCORD = SUCCESS.

Simplistic I know.......But from evidence observed on many occasions....TRUE nevertheless!!

'ON STANLEY...TO BETTER THINGS !!...ON !!!'

True....

I like you Sir, I like the cut of ya Jib.

[Doug]

Originally Posted by Redraine

Can somebody who has recently been converted to the optimistic view of the taxman situation please let the rest of us know what has changed their minds? No compromising detail needed - just a rough idea would do, but based on SOMETHING concrete.

Simple for me....I don't think there's anything we can do now but trust them.

[maccawozzagod]

Originally Posted by Doug

Statement of Purpose

To coordinate effort - Avoiding duplication.
To Inform – Avoiding mistrust and false information.
To Advance the Accrington Stanley Brand – Not alienate it.

It’s our Choice; if we don’t pull together some groups might possibly become barrier to progress or just disappear altogether from lack of support.

Exactly what ASSF was trying to push before the SOS kicked in.

Mr O'Neil and whoever he chose to bring (the board were invited but only an odd one or two came), were invited to one of our earlier meetings. The upshot of this meeting was that the club were informed
a) that we would not be pursuing our aim of a share issue (this was before the deadline was issued)
b) that we would be seeking to work with the club wherever possible and would help them to promote their various fundraisers - specifically to avoid duplication but secondly to provide more foot soldiers

Numerous ideas were tossed around for the club to think about and come back to us with.

we then had another meeting a couple of weeks later at which the two commercial lads attended. The only idea that was pursued was that we would knock on more doors with the Gold Bond leaflet.

Shortly after this the SOS kicked in an hostilities seemed to have prevailed.

The aim of the ASSF was clear - to put into action a way of filling ASFC coffers with as much money as possible, and without any individuals profiting from such a move.

The club would nominally be valued at a million pounds.

£100k already exists in shares so in effect those shares would be reduced in share value by a factor of 10. This would take The Don (or Eric) to 5.1% instead of 51%. Not surprisingly he wasn't happy about this. But we, as fans aren't concerned with whether one man is happy at a financial deal, we are concerned about what is best for Accrington Stanley.

£900K worth of shares would then be available for all and sundry to buy, with a stipulation that one man could not own more than x% of the total shares. This would avoid the kind of dictatorial attitude that held us back onder Eric, or presently under The Don (depending on your point of view).

ASSF would seek to buy as large a percentage as was allowed. This would ensure that the fans always held as big a share of the club as anyone else. We would then always know the state of the club and its finances and issues like this wouldn't sneak up on us.

It would not be surprising that all the shares are not bought, but that wouldn't be a problem. They would always be there and available should anyone want or need to inject some cash into the club. The OSC could periodically put money into this idea, as could the Ultras, as could HBC or the local scout group - IN FACT EVERYBODY.

This was the best way forward for the club two months ago and it still is now. If all the shares were sold the club would be completely free of debt. The chairman, as elected by the Shareholders or board, could still be O'Neil and could still continue with what plans they have kept closely guarded for the last few weeks.

If the Chairman turned out to be a complete dogs dick he would not be re-elected to the position next year. If the board turned out to be people who would rather the club go under than deal with its fans then they too would find themselves scrap heaped.

Could anyone please tell me why this is not the best way forward for the club?

[DAV007]

Macca - couldnt agree more.
I was hoping to have the ability to purchase shares; not a massive ammount, say 5 grands worth.
I would not expect a monetary return on the investment, just the ability to help steer the club I love into the right direction.

I have no confidence in O'neill. If he manages to find the 200k or whatever is required he will portrait himself as the clubs saviour. But as far as I am concerned, he has a track record of spin over substance.
He has been opportunistic with the fans loyalty to the club utilising the SOS to reduce the proportion of finance he needs to find for the taxman; he does not have the financial clout to bankroll at a yearly loss the club at league 2 level.

The proposals put forward by the ASSF are reasonable and realisitic.
They will help ensure the long term future of the club by providing a continued mass/large group responsibility and decision making as opposed to 1 person.

ASSF - please dont give up your good work!

[Doug]

It’s the share issue Rob, that’s the stumbling bloc; Mr. O’Neil, the existing share holders and Directors already own the club, as long as there are other funding streams available (including the further debt option) they will never hand over control to what is a small group of fans and what essentially is a single major investor in Mr. Khan; even though the ASSF would hold an equal (forgive me I understand that somewhere it said control) amount of shares it’s main funding source would be Mr. Khan, I say this without any disrespect to anyone involved.

If I was Mr. O’Neil or a Director I wouldn’t do it…However; what I would accept is a major financial investment in return for a Directorship and work from the inside.

I strongly believe that the ASSF, Ultras and OSC are the future of the club, but not at this time, the best any group can hope for is a partnership approach to advance the club. This is only my opinion Rob and its not meant to cause any harm to those who have worked extremely hard over the last few weeks.

[DAV007]

How much does O'Neill/Whalley want for their shares?

further debt at this level of football is avoiding the inevitable.

[VALAIRIAN]

Originally Posted by DAV007

How much does O'Neill/Whalley want for their shares?

further debt at this level of football is avoiding the inevitable.

Nobody is sure at this moment, but there is much dialogue going on with all parties, to try and put this to bed A.S.A.P.

[maccawozzagod]

Doug, I probably wouldn't have done it neither if I am honest. But anyone with a pair of eyes can see how much we have struggled to raise £100k and it is strongly believed that we owe a total of around 7 times this figure.

It is more than probable that ASFC and O'Neil will survive this month and assume that the hard work is over, wrong IMHO.

The club is still nowhere near being self sufficient and O'Neil is not going to put money in to cover the debts. The accounts just published that showed a deficit of a hundred and odd thousand pounds were for 2007-2008 season. The following season I could see no evidence of having turned that figure around plus we had the unpaid Fraser Eagle money (that would have shown on those figures) in addition to further crowd dwindles. It is more than feasible that the figures for 2008-2009 will be show even further losses. Without Eric putting his hand in his own pocket I cant see who will. So 2009-2010, what has changed to make us think that we will not only make up those losses but can move the club forward whilst servicing the debts?

ASSF would have done this.

However, it is more than clear that this will not now happen so we will have to just fade into the background again and be ready to attempt a bail out if and when we find ourselves in this position again.

[Doug]

Originally Posted by DAV007

How much does O'Neill/Whalley want for their shares?

further debt at this level of football is avoiding the inevitable.

I think your right in that assumption; debt in any from is not the answer; a complete buy out at market value is a solution but you’re only passing ownership/control to someone else that may have the money but not the Soul.

If Mr. Whalley got anything near what he wanted then that what we would need to find; plus the rest we would need to invest in the infrastructure of the club.

The way my minds working is that the ASSF needs a year or two the bed down, its needs to raise other funding streams to compliment that of Mr. Khan and thereafter be independent of one man’s money. It needs a clear framework, long term action plan and a strong constitution.