Windass and Crooks............. - Page 9

Redraine · 07-01-2016, 20:56

Rangers will collect 420 grand for winning the Championship but there is a question of 250 grand of this potentially being withheld for past dodgy payments to players outside of the rules. Morality? It would be nice to think that the ex-London City financial wizard that is the Rangers manager could excercise a little magnaninity in the case of little old Stanley. Coley has had the rug pulled out from under him yet again and faces some difficult decisions, however things pan out, but I would expect him to just get on with it as usual and use the situation as a motivational tool. Last season at the Crown he was just about the only one not calling Crooks "Stanley's worst ever player, with the honourable exception of Football19, although I think he had inside info second hand from the training sessions!
Whenever I feel a bit gloomy about all this I just get a laugh by going onto Shrimpsvoices, where most, but not all posters, are gloating about our situation. They actually seem to be worried that a big club could come in for their "Star Players" Who could they possibly mean???

deeayess · 07-01-2016, 21:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redraine

Rangers will collect 420 grand for winning the Championship but there is a question of 250 grand of this potentially being withheld for past dodgy payments to players outside of the rules.

I wouldn't read too much into that because Scottish football is rotten from top to bottom and in the process of hating it's self to death. One of the reasons why I spend more time watching Stanley than going to games in Scotland now.

LongLostSon · 07-01-2016, 21:22

Ok, so 2 of the squad are leaving - doubt Rangers have broken any rules. Nobody can be anything but pleased for the 2 young lads. I think what most are miffed about is the 'lack of transparency' when we would expect better, having been instrumental in showcasing the talent they exercised. Doubt Matt and Josh will be comfortable with this but suspect they were given no option by a parasitic agent. To my mind the burning issue revolves around the degree of effort by the lads, who must feel demob happy to some extent. Bear in mind that their 'close-knit' team mates and John 'n Jimmy should ensure usual commitment but should performance levels drop then they cannot be surprised if benched as doubt any 'training fee' payable is worth missing out on a top 7 finish.
Onwards and upwards, not really bothered with the squad we have who gets the starting shirts . No particular favourites with me - although Pierro never fails to excite this ex-school lad winger.

Jeg Red · 07-01-2016, 21:53

There's multiple angles to this. Rangers haven't broken any rules. You can't blame the 2 lads for wanting to better themselves as its only a short career. Our club are the real losers here as we won't get any financial compensation for the development work they've put into the players, so we should look to lobby the English and Scottish FAs (or UEFA) to consider a recipricol agreement to avoid a future situation like this for smaller clubs.

Calling for the players not to be selected is petty on our part as to date this season, Coley has selected them in his first 11 and nothing should change in this regard, after all, we've been pretty successful so far.

It's in everyone's best interests for the 2 lads to continue to perform at the level they've shown this season. Our club benefits as it aids our promotion push and there's no doubt Rangers will be keeping a close eye on the pair - any dip in commitment and performance levels won't reflect good on Windass and Crooks as it may lead Warburton and his team to question their attitude, never mind the obligation they owe the club for taking a risk on them. They're being paid by us, so are obligated to perform. I'm sure their professional pride won't let their standards slip.

Let's concentrate on moving forward. It's a fact of life with our club that we'll continue to be a stepping stone for players - that's just where we are in the food chain. I remember when Rory Prendergast left and I thought we'd struggle to replace him - Gary Roberts came in. Our manager has a proven track record of unearthing gems and I'm sure he'll do it again - as an example, he saw something in Matty Crooks that none of us did and look at him now.

Chewbacca · 07-01-2016, 22:55

It is a FIFA guidance that governs the "training compo". We do get money but it is next to nothing as training costs are worked out according to he level of the clubs involved.

Stanley are category 4 Rangers are currently category 3 but category 2 if promoted. Therefore we get 35,000 euros per year (60,000 SPL + 10,000 LeagueTwo/2) up to 21 they were both at the club.

It looks like 52,500 Euros for Josh (18 months ish) and nothing for Matt based on my rough understanding. If we had them since the age of 12 it would be much more as it is based on each year but weighted towards the older years.

LucyBlue · 07-01-2016, 23:25

Another Rangers fan here:

You guys talk about "class" in transfers, want to know what we've suffered? Then let's talk of "class".

We lost the following players...and just as you say, it was by the rules but showed no class and morally wrong:

Steven Naismith - Signed by Everton. We signed him for £2 million. We got zero.

Steven Whittaker. - Signed by Norwich. We signed him for £2 million. We got zero.

Steve Davis - Signed by Southampton. We signed him for £3 million. We got zero. Southampton later gave us £500k out of pure guilt.

Kyle Lafferty - Signed by Sion, now at Norwich. We signed him for£4.5 million. We got zero.

Alan McGregor - Signed by some Turkish mob, now at Hull. Our regular goalkeeper, trained from a boy. We got zero.

As Rangers fans we know all about being shafted.

I'm sorry you guys feel the same but we were told at the time...thems the rules...suck it up. You've suffered FAR less.

So don't accuse us of a lack of class...English clubs royally screwed us over...

Our signing of 2 of yours when their contracts are about to run out ain't in the same league as what we suffered.

So chill guys, we're all football fans. As Rangers fans we know well beyond you what losing players for next to nothing is when legal but seems horribly unfair.

As it goes, I sympathise wholeheartedly with you but we're hardly to blame...the same rules have lost us FAR more than we've gained.

Stop hating on our club and fans...you've no idea the "lack of class" we've been shown.

Peace out Lu x

cmonstanley · 07-01-2016, 23:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by AccyMad

My last words on the subject cos as others have said, what's done is done & we have to get on with our season but I can't help but wonder if Rangers fans would feel no wrong has been done if the boot was on the other foot?
Except that wouldn't happen because, despite their difficulties, Rangers are still seen as a big club & they & others like them will always be able to screw over smaller clubs like Stanley - it's just sad that it's allowed to happen but that's football & indeed life.

I tell you what has happened at rangers in the past this would have been nothing we have been fraudently bought liquidated ripped off by Ashley this is nothing. And Stanley have risen from the ashes for which similar happened . rangers ony followed the rules it has been common knowledge about rangers interest its been strange opening the papers up here and seeing the great accy Stanley on the pages.

Chewbacca · 08-01-2016, 00:02

If Stanley went into liquidation any decent player would leave rather than play 3 divisions below so there is no comparison.

If Rangers were in he lowlands league for 45 years we may have suffered less, but taking the two best midfielders off the lowest supported league club in England whilst claiming to be the most successful club in the world is very vulgar.

When we signed Gus Wilson you signed Mark Walters, slightly different reaction from the different sets of fans...

deeayess · 08-01-2016, 00:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chewbacca

If Stanley went into liquidation any decent player would leave rather than play 3 divisions below so there is no comparison.

If Rangers were in he lowlands league for 45 years we may have suffered less, but taking the two best midfielders off the lowest supported league club in England whilst claiming to be the most successful club in the world is very vulgar.

When we signed Gus Wilson you signed Mark Walters, slightly different reaction from the different sets of fans...

I think I know what you are implying and either you are at it or very missinformed unless you mean away fans. I know because I was there at Celtic Park and Tynecastle and it was a disgrace even in the 80s.

Normally I wouldn't get dragged into this as this is an Accy forum which is why I let the last one go but to imply racism by Rangers fans against Mark Walters is taking it too far.

A black day for Scots football - The Scotsman

winstanley asfc · 08-01-2016, 00:32

"Coleman did admit however, that he was disappointed the way the news came out.

“I don’t get embroiled in social media but I do think going on and seeing the players had tweeted about ‘buzzing to play for a massive club’ is disrespectful to our fans.

“Our fans have backed them through thick and thin and I do think there should be more respect in place".

Well said Coley!!

Compare this to Windass senior's bulls**t Daily Record article!

carpon · 08-01-2016, 02:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by LucyBlue

Another Rangers fan here:

You guys talk about "class" in transfers, want to know what we've suffered? Then let's talk of "class".

We lost the following players...and just as you say, it was by the rules but showed no class and morally wrong:

Steven Naismith - Signed by Everton. We signed him for £2 million. We got zero.

Steven Whittaker. - Signed by Norwich. We signed him for £2 million. We got zero.

Steve Davis - Signed by Southampton. We signed him for £3 million. We got zero. Southampton later gave us £500k out of pure guilt.

Kyle Lafferty - Signed by Sion, now at Norwich. We signed him for£4.5 million. We got zero.

Alan McGregor - Signed by some Turkish mob, now at Hull. Our regular goalkeeper, trained from a boy. We got zero.

As Rangers fans we know all about being shafted.

I'm sorry you guys feel the same but we were told at the time...thems the rules...suck it up. You've suffered FAR less.

So don't accuse us of a lack of class...English clubs royally screwed us over...

Our signing of 2 of yours when their contracts are about to run out ain't in the same league as what we suffered.

So chill guys, we're all football fans. As Rangers fans we know well beyond you what losing players for next to nothing is when legal but seems horribly unfair.

As it goes, I sympathise wholeheartedly with you but we're hardly to blame...the same rules have lost us FAR more than we've gained.

Stop hating on our club and fans...you've no idea the "lack of class" we've been shown.

Absolute rubbish.....

With the exception of Davis (for whom I can't seem to find any info on Wiki) the other four players became free agents after your club went into liquidation, when all four chose not to join your "new club" and drop to the fourth tier of Scottish football. Their contracts with the "old" Rangers became defunct when your club went into liquidation. Hence they went where they did under totally different circumstances.

I've also trawled through pages of posts on Rangers forums.....from gloating Rangers fans.....quite happy with the fact that your club has turned us over. A lot of those posts show your "fans" in a true light.

Arrogant.

I also read with interest that Rangers have already supposedly inserted a "£3.5million release clause" into Windass' future contract.

Not bad business for a player you're getting on the cheap !!

There was not a lot Stanley could do after the players agent "pimped" them around. From that moment, the two players were never going to sign another contract at Stanley.

Stanley can't afford the wages that not only Rangers, but any bigger club could offer. We were already in a no win situation that meant we were going to lose both players for a pittance.

The decent thing to do as a club, would have been to ask for permission to speak to the players. Permission that no doubt would have been granted, albeit reluctantly.

Not send an e-mail to the club secretary telling him / her that you would be speaking to the players.

But your club went behind our Chairman's, owner's and manager's backs to sign the pair up on a loophole on the cheap. At a critical point in our season where promotion to the next level is an achievable goal.

This situation has the potential to not only ruin our season, but leave us extremely out of pocket in the long run.

No decent compensation for two promising players given a second chance by a club that needs to make money by unearthing such "gems" and selling them on at a profit. A club that has to live within it's means and try and survive on 1500 gates in the shadow of two more illustrious and better supported neighbours.

No potential sell on clauses benefiting A.S.F.C. should Rangers sell one or both on at a massive profit for Glasgow Rangers.

So I stand by my conviction that your club has no class when it came to dealing with these two signing for you.

Your club has exploited both the rules and our predicament without even having the decency of asking for permission to shaft us.

Revived Red · 08-01-2016, 10:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by carpon

try and survive on 1500 gates in the shadow of two more illustrious and better supported neighbours.

You make excellent points, but please don't equate our poor attendances with our location between Blackburn and Burnley. Remember that Stockport County can average attendances of about 3000 - and they are only 7 miles from the Etihad and Old Trafford.

I have very mixed feelings about this whole episode and I suspect that we did ourselves no favours with the ludicrous claim that one or both of these would be our first million pound player. I also suspect that Rangers will have played by the rules - no more, no less. It is impossible to go beyond that and talk about "rights and wrongs" because football, in its entirety, exists in a moral vacuum.

If the pair are selected to play, it will be interesting to see how the fans respond. I have a suspicion that fans will certainly react to a few misplaced passes or missed opportunities to score.

monkey hanger · 08-01-2016, 10:18

the whole affair is just another reason why a lot of older people have turned their backs on football and have decided to do other sport related activities in their leisure time. thankfully I was brought up pre bosman and pre agent days. the great brian clough would not speak to the latter. lower down the leagues you,ll get ripped off more and more. non league sides loose good prospects for chicken feed by the same clubs pay millions to some unknown African or central European who have the same chance of making it. good luck to both lads in the future and as I,ve said before have not anyone left their job for another for all reasons especially money. will be at the crown tomorrow weather permitting and cheer on matt and joss as before as long as they don't hide. anyone who does not want to should stay at home. we deed to be together more and more now and be in one voice WE ARE GOING UP

cashman · 08-01-2016, 10:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Revived Red

You make excellent points, but please don't equate our poor attendances with our location between Blackburn and Burnley.

It does have a great bearing, following the fact that in 62, me @ many others had to go elsewhere to watch football. we then became indoctrinated with Blackburn or Burnley, as teenagers, then got wed etc and our kids came yon with us. fact. ok me and a few more returned to stanley, but most didn't.plus our kids never even knew stanley, so they were never gonna defect.

our kids then got wed and were did there kids go?

monkey hanger · 08-01-2016, 10:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by cashman

It does have a great bearing, following the fact that in 62, me @ many others had to go elsewhere to watch football. we then became indoctrinated with Blackburn or Burnley, as teenagers, then got wed etc and our kids came yon with us. fact. ok me and a few more returned to stanley, but most didn't.plus our kids never even knew stanley, so they were never gonna defect.

common sense is that all lower league sides with near neighbours who have always been more successful have a problem with attendances and stanleys case of 40 odd years without a league club helps even less. you tend to go with youre old man firstly and you are usually hooked before you enter your teens and go with youre mates. it needs another 20 years or so to get genarations hooked on Stanley like the reason stockport get 3000 to watch utter garbage.