Harsh or Just ?

What time was the crash? He may have been unaware of his condition but surely you realise that you're feeling drowsy, 4 people lost their lives I dont think the sentence was harsh.
 
article dont give enough info,like how long he,d been driving, how long been awake, to make a balanced descision, for once i'll sit on the fence. when multiple deaths are the outcome its hard to say too harsh though.
 
grego said:
What time was the crash? He may have been unaware of his condition but surely you realise that you're feeling drowsy, 4 people lost their lives I dont think the sentence was harsh.
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The article just says that he was awake from around 04:30, driving by 07:00 and that the accident happened in the afternnon rush hour...maybe it was dinnertime ish or teatime ish. Seems harsh to me due to that fact that he had no intent to fall asleep and was unaware that he had a condition whereby he will become drowsy.

Having said that it is easy to be liberal with my forgiveness, it wasn't my family that was wiped out.

Seems there is many an instance where people lose their life on our roads due to the negligence of complete idiots, drink/drug abusers, un-qualified drivers and so forth. Through some technicalities or other they just get driving bans or fined ( give a driving ban to a person who is not qualified to drive...how the hell is that a punishment )

I just thought it harsh :)
 
I find it hard to believe that he didn't have any symptoms at all prior to the accident, (I've been reading about 'Sleep Apnoea - see link below'). Although he might have been unaware that he had the condition he must have been experiencing drowsy spells or tiredness for some time to have actually fallen asleep at the wheel. Also, in his line of work there are clear guidelines on driving hours and taking regular breaks. I think that as a family of 4 lost their lives, the charge & the sentence is justified.

Sleep apnoea Introduction - Health encyclopaedia - NHS Direct
 
nikkival said:
I find it hard to believe that he didn't have any symptoms at all prior to the accident, (I've been reading about 'Sleep Apnoea - see link below'). Although he might have been unaware that he had the condition he must have been experiencing drowsy spells or tiredness for some time to have actually fallen asleep at the wheel. Also, in his line of work there are clear guidelines on driving hours and taking regular breaks. I think that as a family of 4 lost their lives, the charge & the sentence is justified.

Sleep apnoea Introduction - Health encyclopaedia - NHS Direct
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You have said exactly what I wanted to say...but oh so much better :)
 
well its a known fact that defence lawyers, will use any tactic to get a win,agree with nikkival now i know a bit more.
 
Bonnyboy said:
The article just says that he was awake from around 04:30, driving by 07:00 and that the accident happened in the afternnon rush hour...maybe it was dinnertime ish or teatime ish. Seems harsh to me due to that fact that he had no intent to fall asleep and was unaware that he had a condition whereby he will become drowsy.

Having said that it is easy to be liberal with my forgiveness, it wasn't my family that was wiped out.

Seems there is many an instance where people lose their life on our roads due to the negligence of complete idiots, drink/drug abusers, un-qualified drivers and so forth. Through some technicalities or other they just get driving bans or fined ( give a driving ban to a person who is not qualified to drive...how the hell is that a punishment )

I just thought it harsh :)
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Its not that I dont believe he has the condition, but surely anyone who has been up since 4am would be feeling tired by lunch and tea time especially if driving for all that time. I agree that the family of the people killed no doubt will think its not long enough. :)
 
Looks like some Accyweb members have managed to diagnose this chap. It's a pity the mans G.P. wasn't as well informed on "Sleep apnoea" if that is what he indeed suffers from.
 
harwood red said:
No it says thats what he suffers from in your original link
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Yes it does, so I will retract my smart arsed “diagnosis” comment. Fact is though, that all illnesses affect everyone differently. I just think that serving a jail term for doing something that you have no real control over is a bit unfair.
 
Bonnyboy said:
I'm on a hiding to nothing with this aren't I...glad I'm too thick to be a barrister :) :D
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Don't be too hard on yourself! On first read I thought it was a bit harsh but changed my mind when I read more about the sleep disorder. Who would want to be a judge these days?
 
I think I agree with you Bonnyboy. I know two people who suffer from sleep apnoea and both of them just suddenly drop off to sleep. They don't doze or behave like other people who feel sleepy and drowsy.One minute they are wide awake and next minute they are snoring. If something suddenly wakens them they are not even aware of how long they have been asleep. One of them used to drive and had an accident, drove into a garden fence and rolled the car over. Until then he wasn't even aware that it happened either. He was fortunate in that no other car was involved and neither he nor his passengers were seriously hurt.

I don't know how long this chap had been up and about and been driving as that isn't clear in the article. The early hour of the morning gives the implication that he had been maybe overdoing it and been driving for too long but it's all relative. Some people get up at 7am, set off for work at 8am and can be driving for several hours - he may not have actually been on the road any longer than that.

However, if he had been driving for a long time and not taken any breaks then that could be taken into account as a contributory factor and most people should have sense to take a break. It's not clear whether he did or not, although he does say he didn't feel sleepy. I think that is often a characteristic of sleep apnoea that the sufferer isn't actually aware of feeling sleepy.

In any case nothing can bring back those whose lives have been lost. If the purpose of the punishment is to prevent the person from doing it again I would say that it's unnecessary because he is hardly likely to ever do it again now that he knows he has such a problem whether he is punished or not. If the idea is to discourage other people from doing the same thing then it's pointless because anyone else in the same situation may well also not know they suffer from this problem and so wouldn't consider it related to them.
 
Heck Willow, that was a decent post, would give you some karma but apparently I have to spread it around a little more :rolleyes:
 
And now Parliament is discussing the possibility of a driver causing a death on the roads because of a momentary lapse in concentration will only get a community sentence instead of prison.

Or put another way – if you have the money to hire a really smart barrister to plead your ‘momentary lapse’ case you are likely to stay out of prison. Whereas the rest of us without such financial muscle will get slammed in clink.

As for the topic in question. On the face of it, it may seem harsh but there are too many unknowns to make a judgement so I have to accept the learned judge’s decision.

All I can say is that at 61 Ian King must have been aware that as you grow older you change in many ways and one way is that you get tired quicker.
 
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